A mistake no doubtyurikvelo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 pmKRPPvKRP.rtbw = 23.261 Gb (not 2.326)Code: Select all
SUM Number/ Pieces # in DB % SUM % GB Gb per MB 1 4+3 krppkrp 165,068 2.33% 165,068 26.21% 2.3 2.326 70.962 2 4+3 kpppkpp 60,353 0.85% 225,421 35.79% 4.4 2.107 28.639 3 5+2 krpppkr 20,016 0.28% 245,437 38.97% 5.5 1.076 18.606 4 5+2 kppppkp 3,933 0.06% 249,370 39.59% 5.8 0.337 11.672 5 5+2 kqpppkp 1,934 0.03% 251,304 39.90% 6.0 0.189 10.231 6 4+3 kqppkpp 7,116 0.10% 258,420 41.03% 8.1 2.110 3.373
7.0962 per MB (5th place)
7 Man Syzygy and SSD
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
would take a lot MORE testing than I did.MikeB wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:02 amPerhaps the rating scale should not be linear, there is no question in my mind that krppkrp is the most important in the 7 man set , just as krpkr was the most important in the 5 man set,. It is the most important due to the "trickiness" and the frequency. I was doing some testing on EGTB's and many of then are solved by today's engines without any tablebases. krppkrp is the hardest for any engine to solve without egtb, based on over 30 years of observation ( and some testing ), intuition and some conjecture, ymmv.yurikvelo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 pmKRPPvKRP.rtbw = 23.261 Gb (not 2.326)Code: Select all
SUM Number/ Pieces # in DB % SUM % GB Gb per MB 1 4+3 krppkrp 165,068 2.33% 165,068 26.21% 2.3 2.326 70.962 2 4+3 kpppkpp 60,353 0.85% 225,421 35.79% 4.4 2.107 28.639 3 5+2 krpppkr 20,016 0.28% 245,437 38.97% 5.5 1.076 18.606 4 5+2 kppppkp 3,933 0.06% 249,370 39.59% 5.8 0.337 11.672 5 5+2 kqpppkp 1,934 0.03% 251,304 39.90% 6.0 0.189 10.231 6 4+3 kqppkpp 7,116 0.10% 258,420 41.03% 8.1 2.110 3.373
7.0962 per MB (5th place)
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
krppkrp is a must have given its frequency plus I believe its the only one to have a book written about it. The book doesn't seem to get much mention here but if you bought John Nunn's 5pc books this one is worth getting too (IMHO of course).MikeB wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:02 amPerhaps the rating scale should not be linear, there is no question in my mind that krppkrp is the most important in the 7 man set , just as krpkr was the most important in the 5 man set,. It is the most important due to the "trickiness" and the frequency. I was doing some testing on EGTB's and many of then are solved by today's engines without any tablebases. krppkrp is the hardest for any engine to solve without egtb, based on over 30 years of observation ( and some testing ), intuition and some conjecture, ymmv.yurikvelo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 pmKRPPvKRP.rtbw = 23.261 Gb (not 2.326)Code: Select all
SUM Number/ Pieces # in DB % SUM % GB Gb per MB 1 4+3 krppkrp 165,068 2.33% 165,068 26.21% 2.3 2.326 70.962 2 4+3 kpppkpp 60,353 0.85% 225,421 35.79% 4.4 2.107 28.639 3 5+2 krpppkr 20,016 0.28% 245,437 38.97% 5.5 1.076 18.606 4 5+2 kppppkp 3,933 0.06% 249,370 39.59% 5.8 0.337 11.672 5 5+2 kqpppkp 1,934 0.03% 251,304 39.90% 6.0 0.189 10.231 6 4+3 kqppkpp 7,116 0.10% 258,420 41.03% 8.1 2.110 3.373
7.0962 per MB (5th place)
Understanding Rook Endgames (Paperback)
Karsten Muller (author), Yakov Konoval (author)
https://www.waterstones.com/book/unders ... 1910093818
Author of the actively developed PSYCHO chess engine
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
Just to clarify from the book sources:IanKennedy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:22 pmkrppkrp is a must have given its frequency plus I believe its the only one to have a book written about it. The book doesn't seem to get much mention here but if you bought John Nunn's 5pc books this one is worth getting too (IMHO of course).MikeB wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:02 amPerhaps the rating scale should not be linear, there is no question in my mind that krppkrp is the most important in the 7 man set , just as krpkr was the most important in the 5 man set,. It is the most important due to the "trickiness" and the frequency. I was doing some testing on EGTB's and many of then are solved by today's engines without any tablebases. krppkrp is the hardest for any engine to solve without egtb, based on over 30 years of observation ( and some testing ), intuition and some conjecture, ymmv.yurikvelo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 pmKRPPvKRP.rtbw = 23.261 Gb (not 2.326)Code: Select all
SUM Number/ Pieces # in DB % SUM % GB Gb per MB 1 4+3 krppkrp 165,068 2.33% 165,068 26.21% 2.3 2.326 70.962 2 4+3 kpppkpp 60,353 0.85% 225,421 35.79% 4.4 2.107 28.639 3 5+2 krpppkr 20,016 0.28% 245,437 38.97% 5.5 1.076 18.606 4 5+2 kppppkp 3,933 0.06% 249,370 39.59% 5.8 0.337 11.672 5 5+2 kqpppkp 1,934 0.03% 251,304 39.90% 6.0 0.189 10.231 6 4+3 kqppkpp 7,116 0.10% 258,420 41.03% 8.1 2.110 3.373
7.0962 per MB (5th place)
Understanding Rook Endgames (Paperback)
Karsten Muller (author), Yakov Konoval (author)
https://www.waterstones.com/book/unders ... 1910093818
"Konoval's 5/6/7 man tbs
Nalimov's 5/6 man tbs
Syzygy 5/6 man tbs"
Author of the actively developed PSYCHO chess engine
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
What are the next 10 most important Syzygy Endgame Tablebases in your opinion?MikeB wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:53 pm The purpose of this post is to help one decide which 7 man syzygy files , along with the nearly 200GB files needed for 6 Man Syzygy to place on the a 1TB SSD drive to get maximum benefit.
I'm just going to put this out there as sort of help post for those that are wondering about the most economical way to use 7 man syzygy. I'm sure others have some pretty good suggestions as well and please feel free to share. First, there is real no need to get all 20 GB or so to benefit from 7 man syzygy. Fromm a practical standpoint , about 6o files (rtbw and rtbz) are all you need to get started , provided you have the all of the 6 man syzygy. Only RTBW are used during search, but the RTBZ files are needed, and all the tables that can be reached through promotion and the corresponding DTZ tables to play out the mate reliably. For this purpose, it assumed you will place the others files required to play out mate on an HDD drive.
So we have an 1 TB SSD drive, we have copied all of the 6 man rtbw and rtbz (recommended) onto this drive and we have roughly 800 GB left. A portfolio of the 7 man rtbw files listed below, will capture nearly 80% of the 7 man endings reached in human play.
Happy Endgame Analysis!Code: Select all
Size EGTB Bytes -------------------------------------- 77G KBNPvKRP.rtbw 82,917,193,040 75G KRBPvKRB.rtbw 80,280,358,288 69G KRNPvKRN.rtbw 74,082,453,136 68G KRNPvKRB.rtbw 72,853,318,096 54G KRNPvKRP.rtbw 58,025,199,248 45G KRBPvKRP.rtbw 48,381,043,216 39G KRNPvKBN.rtbw 42,185,842,192 29G KBPPvKRP.rtbw 31,606,770,192 29G KBPPvKBP.rtbw 30,746,474,768 28G KNPPvKRP.rtbw 29,911,219,856 27G KNPPvKNP.rtbw 29,087,503,696 27G KBPPvKNP.rtbw 28,727,898,832 27G KRPPvKRB.rtbw 28,687,360,336 26G KRPPvKRN.rtbw 27,834,688,208 22G KRPPvKRP.rtbw 23,261,437,520 21G KQPPvKQP.rtbw 22,632,171,664 16G KRPPvKQP.rtbw 16,689,932,048 11G KRPPvKBP.rtbw 11,435,368,336 9.0G KNPPvKPP.rtbw 9,689,699,280 9.0G KRPPvKNP.rtbw 9,632,432,848 7.4G KBPPvKPP.rtbw 7,973,639,248 7.1G KPPPvKBP.rtbw 7,584,064,976 6.2G KPPPvKNP.rtbw 6,680,648,720 4.7G KRPPvKPP.rtbw 5,054,627,664 4.3G KPPPvKRP.rtbw 4,645,229,072 2.1G KPPPvKQP.rtbw 2,269,738,128 2.0G KPPPvKPP.rtbw 2,107,379,792 1.0G KRPPPvKR.rtbw 1,075,778,832 686M KRNPvKQP.rtbw 719,440,845 ------------------------------------ 796,778,912,077
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
In a small sampling of human games, these were the most popular endings 7-men ending, covering more than 95% of the games:Magnum wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:54 pmWhat are the next 10 most important Syzygy Endgame Tablebases in your opinion?MikeB wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:53 pm The purpose of this post is to help one decide which 7 man syzygy files , along with the nearly 200GB files needed for 6 Man Syzygy to place on the a 1TB SSD drive to get maximum benefit.
I'm just going to put this out there as sort of help post for those that are wondering about the most economical way to use 7 man syzygy. I'm sure others have some pretty good suggestions as well and please feel free to share. First, there is real no need to get all 20 GB or so to benefit from 7 man syzygy. Fromm a practical standpoint , about 6o files (rtbw and rtbz) are all you need to get started , provided you have the all of the 6 man syzygy. Only RTBW are used during search, but the RTBZ files are needed, and all the tables that can be reached through promotion and the corresponding DTZ tables to play out the mate reliably. For this purpose, it assumed you will place the others files required to play out mate on an HDD drive.
So we have an 1 TB SSD drive, we have copied all of the 6 man rtbw and rtbz (recommended) onto this drive and we have roughly 800 GB left. A portfolio of the 7 man rtbw files listed below, will capture nearly 80% of the 7 man endings reached in human play.
Happy Endgame Analysis!Code: Select all
Size EGTB Bytes -------------------------------------- 77G KBNPvKRP.rtbw 82,917,193,040 75G KRBPvKRB.rtbw 80,280,358,288 69G KRNPvKRN.rtbw 74,082,453,136 68G KRNPvKRB.rtbw 72,853,318,096 54G KRNPvKRP.rtbw 58,025,199,248 45G KRBPvKRP.rtbw 48,381,043,216 39G KRNPvKBN.rtbw 42,185,842,192 29G KBPPvKRP.rtbw 31,606,770,192 29G KBPPvKBP.rtbw 30,746,474,768 28G KNPPvKRP.rtbw 29,911,219,856 27G KNPPvKNP.rtbw 29,087,503,696 27G KBPPvKNP.rtbw 28,727,898,832 27G KRPPvKRB.rtbw 28,687,360,336 26G KRPPvKRN.rtbw 27,834,688,208 22G KRPPvKRP.rtbw 23,261,437,520 21G KQPPvKQP.rtbw 22,632,171,664 16G KRPPvKQP.rtbw 16,689,932,048 11G KRPPvKBP.rtbw 11,435,368,336 9.0G KNPPvKPP.rtbw 9,689,699,280 9.0G KRPPvKNP.rtbw 9,632,432,848 7.4G KBPPvKPP.rtbw 7,973,639,248 7.1G KPPPvKBP.rtbw 7,584,064,976 6.2G KPPPvKNP.rtbw 6,680,648,720 4.7G KRPPvKPP.rtbw 5,054,627,664 4.3G KPPPvKRP.rtbw 4,645,229,072 2.1G KPPPvKQP.rtbw 2,269,738,128 2.0G KPPPvKPP.rtbw 2,107,379,792 1.0G KRPPPvKR.rtbw 1,075,778,832 686M KRNPvKQP.rtbw 719,440,845 ------------------------------------ 796,778,912,077
I prefer usung human games versus computer games, because many computer games are played to the bitter end. They are in order of popularity. Just match them to the list above to see what the next 10 would be.
Code: Select all
Ending
KRPPvKRP
KBPPvKBP
KPPPvKPP
KNPPvKNP
KNPPvKBP
KBPPvKNP
KQPPvKQP
KBPPvKRP
KRPPPvKR
KRBPvKRP
KRNPvKRP
KNPPvKRP
KPPPvKBP
KRBPvKRB
KRPPvKRB
KPPPvKNP
KBPPvKPP
KRPPvKRN
KRPPvKPP
KNPPvKPP
KRNPvKRN
KRNPvKRB
KRPPvKNP
KRPPvKBP
KPPPvKRP
KBNPvKRP
KRPPvKQP
KNPPPvKN
KRBPvKRN
KBPPPvKR
KQPPPvKQ
KNPPPvKR
KBNPvKBP
KQPPvKPP
KRNPvKBP
KBPPPvKN
KRBPPvKR
KRNPPvKR
KRBPvKBP
KRBPvKRR
KRPPvKBN
KRPPvKRR
KRRPvKRP
KRNPvKNP
KNPPPvKB
KQPPvKQN
KBBPvKBP
KBNPvKNP
KBNPvKBN
KNPPvKBN
KRPvKRRP
KRBPvKQP
KRBPPvKB
KBNPPvKR
KBPPvKRB
KNPPvKRB
KRRvKRRP
KRPPPvKQ
KNPPPvKP
KRBPvKNP
KQPPvKBP
KPPPvKQP
KBPPPvKB
KBNPPvKP
KRRPPvKR
KRRPvKRR
KNPPvKRN
KQPPvKRR
KRNPvKPP
KRBPPvKQ
KRPPPvKN
KBNPvKPP
KBPPvKBB
KQPvKRRP
KBPPvKBN
KBNPvKRB
KBPPvKRN
KQBPvKRP
KRNPPvKQ
KRBvKRRP
KNNPvKPP
KPPPPvKN
KQNPvKRP
KRNvKRRP
KBBPvKNP
KRRNPvKQ
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Re: 7 Man Syzygy and SSD
In my Scid database of 46000 engine-engine match games played between 1998 and 2022 on my computers,
KRPPkrp occurred in 2541 games, i.e. 5.5%
Of those 2541 games, 1421 ended as a draw, i.e. 55.9%
KRPPkrp occurred in 2541 games, i.e. 5.5%
Of those 2541 games, 1421 ended as a draw, i.e. 55.9%