Went though many of the decisive games - so far only found that had an impact on play, but it did not impact final result.
[d]7q/2R4P/6k1/p7/Pp6/1K6/8/8 b - - 0 1
With 7 man syzygy, it plays Qxh7 immediately, with 6 man syzygy, it will play Qxh7 at depth 37 in about 11 seconds. With no egtb, it will be quite a while before it plays Qxh7.
In the game 6 man syzygy McCain played Rc6+, which shorten the mate-in-25 to mate-in-15. This is the more typical type of artifacts one will see by going up to a higher man egtb - better play , but minimal Elo impact.
I don't seem to be able to find a list of MD5 hashes for 7 piece tables. I'd like to verify my downloads are not corrupt. Could someone point me to a list of hashes?
Thanks
Mike
“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.” ― Mark Twain
MikeB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:49 pm
Went though many of the decisive games - so far only found that had an impact on play, but it did not impact final result.
[d]7q/2R4P/6k1/p7/Pp6/1K6/8/8 b - - 0 1
With 7 man syzygy, it plays Qxh7 immediately, with 6 man syzygy, it will play Qxh7 at depth 37 in about 11 seconds. With no egtb, it will be quite a while before it plays Qxh7.
In the game 6 man syzygy McCain played Rc6+, which shorten the mate-in-25 to mate-in-15. This is the more typical type of artifacts one will see by going up to a higher man egtb - better play , but minimal Elo impact.
MikeB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:18 am
Going back to the 4 man EGTB, it probably gain 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB , perhaps gain 2 or 3 Elo, going from 5 man to 6 man EGTB maybe gain another 1-2 Elo and like wise with going from 6 to 7 man EGTB, another 1-2 Elo. And alway less at longer TC.
As today's software is smarter, would you expect to get the same elo difference today.
e.g you say it probably gained 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB . Do you know if it would be less than that for for latest stockfish ?
MikeB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:18 am
Going back to the 4 man EGTB, it probably gain 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB , perhaps gain 2 or 3 Elo, going from 5 man to 6 man EGTB maybe gain another 1-2 Elo and like wise with going from 6 to 7 man EGTB, another 1-2 Elo. And alway less at longer TC.
As today's software is smarter, would you expect to get the same elo difference today.
e.g you say it probably gained 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB . Do you know if it would be less than that for for latest stockfish ?
Generally speaking, the weaker engines gain the most and the strongest engines gain the least from these type of enhancements. Function of diminishing returns. 5 years ago for Stockfish, we would see many patches worth 5 Elo or more, today, a 5 Elo patch is a rare bird indeed.
MikeB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:18 am
Going back to the 4 man EGTB, it probably gain 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB , perhaps gain 2 or 3 Elo, going from 5 man to 6 man EGTB maybe gain another 1-2 Elo and like wise with going from 6 to 7 man EGTB, another 1-2 Elo. And alway less at longer TC.
As today's software is smarter, would you expect to get the same elo difference today.
e.g you say it probably gained 5 or 6 Elo compared to none, going from 4 to 5 Man EGTB . Do you know if it would be less than that for for latest stockfish ?
Generally speaking, the weaker engines gain the most and the strongest engines gain the least from these type of enhancements. Function of diminishing returns. 5 years ago for Stockfish, we would see many patches worth 5 Elo or more, today, a 5 Elo patch is a rare bird indeed.
Do you have an opinion if all the pieces were in Ram, would there be more of an elo gain than currently ?
mbabigian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 pm
I don't seem to be able to find a list of MD5 hashes for 7 piece tables. I'd like to verify my downloads are not corrupt. Could someone point me to a list of hashes?
Use the tbcheck checksums if you can (really, it doesn't even need the checksums file). Use the SHA-256 checksums if you can't get tbcheck, or don't trust it for whatever strange reason.
mbabigian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 pm
I don't seem to be able to find a list of MD5 hashes for 7 piece tables. I'd like to verify my downloads are not corrupt. Could someone point me to a list of hashes?
MikeB your example position is not good. ALL engines I try play -Qxh7 immediately with only 5 piece syzygy and Fritz even with 4 piece Nalimov! BTW I have found, that testing syzygy benefit (self test) needs 5000 games minimum.