Java problem

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Gabor Szots
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Java problem

Post by Gabor Szots » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:42 am

I have just updated my Java version to 8.191. The installer warned me to remove not only the old 8.171 but also Java 10 which I had on my machine because some engines (e.g. chess22k) required it. The installer also told me that Java 10 was no longer supported and it represented a security risk.
I am confused because it seems there are two branches of Java, existing beside each other and both are required. Please someone explain the situation to me.
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tpoppins
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Re: Java problem

Post by tpoppins » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:22 am

I also have that same JRE 8 installed for the sake of some old 32-bit engines, alongside the more recent v10.0.2 64-bit. Every time Java Update runs it offers me to uninstall the v10 JRE as "outdated", an offer I just ignore. Obviously, the version checking system in the v8 JRE is not designed well if it cannot tell that v10 is more recent than v8.

Another oddity is that ever since I installed JRE 8 x86 the official site stopped showing me v10 downloads. I probably should reinstall JRE 10 to break this lock.

If you want the bleeding-edge Java get the v11 JDK, it should have a public JRE bundled with it. Note that the latest JRE offered on the official download page is still v10, though.
Tirsa Poppins
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Gabor Szots
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Re: Java problem

Post by Gabor Szots » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:14 am

tpoppins wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:22 am
I also have that same JRE 8 installed for the sake of some old 32-bit engines, alongside the more recent v10.0.2 64-bit. Every time Java Update runs it offers me to uninstall the v10 JRE as "outdated", an offer I just ignore. Obviously, the version checking system in the v8 JRE is not designed well if it cannot tell that v10 is more recent than v8.

Another oddity is that ever since I installed JRE 8 x86 the official site stopped showing me v10 downloads. I probably should reinstall JRE 10 to break this lock.

If you want the bleeding-edge Java get the v11 JDK, it should have a public JRE bundled with it. Note that the latest JRE offered on the official download page is still v10, though.
Thanks, then I'm going to install JDK 11, while keepeing JRE v8 as well. The only problem with that is when I upgrade v10 (or 11), I will have to edit all chess22k (and maybe others) related java paths as there can only be one java path in the system variables and that points to v8.
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Norbert Raimund Leisner
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Re: Java problem

Post by Norbert Raimund Leisner » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:47 am

I have installed Windows 7 SP1 32 - 64 bit on different drives on my system and use JRE 8 for older and 10 for newer engines.

Oracle website for v11 https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java ... 66655.html

A GUI especially for Java engines cf. https://sourceforge.net/projects/sjce/ - https://github.com/harp077/sjce by Roman Koldaev

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Re: Java problem

Post by Guenther » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:01 pm

tpoppins wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:22 am
I also have that same JRE 8 installed for the sake of some old 32-bit engines, alongside the more recent v10.0.2 64-bit. Every time Java Update runs it offers me to uninstall the v10 JRE as "outdated", an offer I just ignore. Obviously, the version checking system in the v8 JRE is not designed well if it cannot tell that v10 is more recent than v8.

Another oddity is that ever since I installed JRE 8 x86 the official site stopped showing me v10 downloads. I probably should reinstall JRE 10 to break this lock.

If you want the bleeding-edge Java get the v11 JDK, it should have a public JRE bundled with it. Note that the latest JRE offered on the official download page is still v10, though.
Hello Tirsa, I thought latest versions of Java are always backward compatible?
Can you tell me a few, which don't work for you and need old J8?
I need to check them here too :)
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Guenther
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Re: Java problem

Post by Guenther » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:18 pm

Guenther wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:01 pm
tpoppins wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:22 am
I also have that same JRE 8 installed for the sake of some old 32-bit engines, alongside the more recent v10.0.2 64-bit. Every time Java Update runs it offers me to uninstall the v10 JRE as "outdated", an offer I just ignore. Obviously, the version checking system in the v8 JRE is not designed well if it cannot tell that v10 is more recent than v8.

Another oddity is that ever since I installed JRE 8 x86 the official site stopped showing me v10 downloads. I probably should reinstall JRE 10 to break this lock.

If you want the bleeding-edge Java get the v11 JDK, it should have a public JRE bundled with it. Note that the latest JRE offered on the official download page is still v10, though.
Hello Tirsa, I thought latest versions of Java are always backward compatible?
Can you tell me a few, which don't work for you and need old J8?
I need to check them here too :)
Ok I checked a few very old ones and they really throw an exception.
e.g. Eden_005 and Ronja_060 (despite being much more recent)
Currently I have only installed JDK 11.01.
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sandermvdb
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Re: Java problem

Post by sandermvdb » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:40 am

Guenther wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:18 pm
Ok I checked a few very old ones and they really throw an exception.
e.g. Eden_005 and Ronja_060 (despite being much more recent)
Currently I have only installed JDK 11.01.
Java versions are indeed backwards compatible. It is true that they removed some libraries from Java 11 to make it leaner. If these missing libaries are causing problems you can add them manually.
What error do you get?

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Re: Java problem

Post by tpoppins » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Guenther, the main reason I have JRE 8 installed is that we have some old 32-bit Java entries on our lists that have accumulated hundreds and thousands of games, it would be counter-productive to start testing their 64-bit versions as in my experience the gain is negligible -- unlike with C/C++ engines where going from 32-bit to 64-bit can be worth 20-50 Elo. I, too, may have run into some old engines not running under newer JREs but I don't have any examples in mind at the moment.
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Guenther
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Re: Java problem

Post by Guenther » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:15 pm

tpoppins wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:06 pm
Guenther, the main reason I have JRE 8 installed is that we have some old 32-bit Java entries on our lists that have accumulated hundreds and thousands of games, it would be counter-productive to start testing their 64-bit versions as in my experience the gain is negligible -- unlike with C/C++ engines where going from 32-bit to 64-bit can be worth 20-50 Elo. I, too, may have run into some old engines not running under newer JREs but I don't have any examples in mind at the moment.
BTW I tried a portable JDK 8 version besides my JDK 11.01, but strangely it did not solve the problems.
(ofc I had to give the java path explicitely then, because the java variable already was set for 11, still I received new and different errors
for the both I tried - one was about a missing manifest IIRC)
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Re: Java problem

Post by tpoppins » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:32 pm

The only Eden version I have is the one we got on the blitz list - v0.0.13. I just tested it again and it works fine using JRE 8. I forgot to mention that the reason I have this version of JRE specifically is that it's the last official 32-bit JRE offered for download.

The way I use it is copy the java.exe from C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_191\bin to C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Oracle\Java\javapath (the symbolic link JREs 9 and later add to the system's PATH) as java-32.exe, this way I don't need to include the full path.

edit: Eden 0.0.13 works with JRE 10.0.2 as well, there are some errors printed about a missing book, but it works.
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