analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

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Uri Blass
Posts: 8116
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:37 pm
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Uri Blass » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm

Stockfish does not see a clear win for white even after a long time.
I wonder if computers can win GM's with black from that position.


FEN: rnbqkbnr/pppp2pp/5p2/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3

Stockfish_18062110_x64_modern:
1/1 00:00 136 68k +1.44 3.d4
2/2 00:00 201 101k +2.58 3.d4 exd4
3/3 00:00 328 164k +2.37 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4
4/4 00:00 615 308k +1.58 3.d4 d6 4.d5 a6
5/6 00:00 2k 548k +2.20 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Qd3
6/6 00:00 2k 807k +1.50 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 h5 5.Nf5 Nc6
7/7 00:00 4k 953k +1.70 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 h5 5.Nf5 Nc6 6.Bf4
8/8 00:00 15k 1,693k +1.68 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Nxd4 6.Qxd4 h5
9/12 00:00 49k 1,744k +2.28 3.d4 Nc6 4.d5 Nce7 5.Bc4 h5 6.d6 cxd6 7.Nc3
10/13 00:00 93k 1,822k +1.99 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bc4 Qe7 5.0-0 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 c6 8.Qc3
11/15 00:00 133k 1,929k +1.99 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Nge7 6.d5 Na5 7.Be2 Bd7 8.Nc3 c6
12/17 00:00 378k 2,348k +1.83 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.d4 exd4 6.Nb5 a6 7.Nbxd4 Na5 8.Bb3 Ne7 9.0-0 Nxb3 10.Nxb3
13/20 00:00 663k 2,482k +1.81 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 Bb4 5.d5 Nce7 6.Be2 d6 7.0-0 c6 8.Nh4 Bxc3 9.bxc3 cxd5 10.exd5 e4 11.Bb5+ Kf8
14/20 00:00 1,326k 2,621k +1.64 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.d4 Nc6 5.Bc4 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.0-0 Na5 8.Be2 Ne7 9.dxe5 fxe5 10.Bg5 c6
15/23 00:00 1,646k 2,605k +1.78 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Bxc3 6.dxc3 Ne7 7.Nh4 h5 8.Be2 Bg4 9.Bxg4 hxg4 10.Qxg4 Nbc6 11.Nf5 Nxf5 12.Qxf5
16/27 00:01 3,521k 2,614k +1.78 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.Bc4 Qd6 11.Qg5 Qd7 12.Ba3 b5 13.Bb3 b4 14.Bxb4 Nc6 15.0-0 Nxb4
17/32 00:01 5,077k 2,683k +1.62 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.Bc4 Qd6 11.Qg5 Qe7 12.a4 Nd5 13.Qxe7+ Nxe7 14.Ba3
18/29 00:02 5,576k 2,698k +1.69 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.f3 Be6 11.c4 Qa5 12.Rb1 Bd7 13.Rxb7 0-0 14.Be2
19/30 00:02 6,959k 2,718k +1.79 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.f3 Qc6 11.fxe4 Nxe4 12.Nxe4 Qxe4 13.Bd3 Qxe3+ 14.Bxe3 Be6
20/30- 00:03 10,516k 2,761k +1.71 3.d4 d5
20/30 00:05 14,827k 2,771k +1.76 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.d3 Nge7 7.Be3 a6 8.h3 Bxf3 9.Qxf3 Qd7 10.a4 0-0-0 11.Qd1 Nd4 12.Bxd4 exd4 13.Ne2
21/30+ 00:05 16,435k 2,746k +1.83 3.d4
21/30+ 00:06 17,184k 2,749k +1.91 3.d4
21/33- 00:07 19,586k 2,761k +1.68 3.d4 d5
21/33+ 00:07 21,439k 2,764k +1.85 3.Bc4
21/33+ 00:08 22,641k 2,763k +2.07 3.Bc4
21/33 00:10 28,339k 2,757k +2.10 3.Bc4 d5 4.exd5 Ne7 5.d4 e4 6.Nh4 c6 7.dxc6 Nbxc6 8.c3 a6 9.0-0 b5 10.Bb3 Na5 11.Re1 Nxb3 12.axb3 Bb7 13.c4 bxc4 14.bxc4 Qc7 15.d5 Qxc4
22/34- 00:10 29,389k 2,757k +2.03 3.Bc4 d5
22/34- 00:11 31,066k 2,756k +1.95 3.Bc4 d5
22/37- 00:12 33,854k 2,757k +1.84 3.Bc4 c6
22/37+ 00:12 35,495k 2,756k +1.93 3.Bc4
22/37 00:16 44,968k 2,764k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.exd5 Bxd5+ 8.Be3 0-0-0 9.Be2 Be6 10.0-0 Kb8 11.d4 Qf7 12.Re1 Nge7 13.Bd3 Bd5 14.Nxd5 Nxd5
23/35+ 00:17 48,311k 2,765k +2.04 3.Nxe5
23/35 00:17 49,235k 2,764k +2.05 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 0-0-0 8.exd5 Bxd5 9.Nxd5 Rxd5 10.Be2 Nh6 11.0-0 Nf5 12.Bd2 g5 13.c4 Rd8 14.Bc3 Kb8 15.Nxg5 Nfd4 16.Ne4 Nxe2+ 17.Qxe2 Nd4
24/38- 00:19 52,758k 2,776k +1.98 3.Nxe5 Qe7
24/38- 00:19 53,094k 2,777k +1.90 3.Nxe5 Qe7
24/41 00:19 54,292k 2,780k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Bf5 8.Nc3 Qxc2 9.Qxc2 Bxc2 10.Nd4 Bg6 11.Bf4 Nc6 12.Ne6 Bd6 13.Bxd6 cxd6 14.Nc7+ Kd7 15.Nxa8 Nge7 16.0-0-0 Rxa8 17.Rd2 Bf7 18.Rhd1 d5 19.Bf3 d4 20.Ne2 Re8 21.Nxd4
25/41+ 00:22 61,336k 2,780k +2.05 3.Nxe5
25/41+ 00:22 62,990k 2,782k +2.12 3.Nxe5
25/45 00:24 68,815k 2,781k +1.99 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Rd8 9.Bd3 Nh6 10.Nd5 Qf7 11.h3 Bxd5 12.exd5 Bb4+ 13.Kf1 Qxd5 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.a3 Bf8 16.Qe2+ Ne5 17.Be4 Qc4 18.Nxe5 Qxe2+ 19.Kxe2 fxe5 20.Bxb7
26/40- 00:28 78,872k 2,786k +1.92 3.Nxe5 Qe7
26/40+ 00:29 81,297k 2,788k +1.99 3.Nxe5
26/42 00:30 86,168k 2,790k +1.90 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.Bf4 Bb4 10.0-0 Bxc3 11.bxc3 Nge7 12.Re1 0-0 13.Nd4 Qf7 14.Bxc7 Nxd4 15.Qxd4 Nc6 16.Qf4 g5 17.Qd6 Be6 18.Bd3 Ne5 19.Be4
27/43- 00:34 95,507k 2,754k +1.82 3.Nxe5 Qe7
27/43+ 00:36 98,896k 2,741k +1.90 3.Nxe5
27/43+ 00:36 100,781k 2,737k +2.01 3.Nxe5
27/43 00:39 107,653k 2,733k +1.96 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Nh6 9.Bb5 Ng4 10.Qe2 Nxe3 11.Qxe3 0-0-0 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Qxa7 Qc5 14.Qa6+ Kb8 15.0-0 Qb6 16.Qe2 Bd6 17.Rad1 Rhe8 18.Nd4 Bd7 19.Rfe1
28/43+ 00:44 118,915k 2,697k +2.04 3.Nxe5
28/43- 00:45 123,303k 2,701k +1.89 3.Nxe5 Qe7
28/43+ 00:46 125,235k 2,703k +2.00 3.Nxe5
28/43- 00:49 133,960k 2,707k +1.77 3.Nxe5 Qe7
28/43 00:54 149,211k 2,717k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.0-0 Bd6 10.Nd5 Nge7 11.c4 0-0 12.Be3 b6 13.Qc2 Rad8 14.Rad1 Ng6 15.c5 bxc5 16.Bxc5 Nce5 17.Nxe5 fxe5 18.Be3 Nf4 19.Bf3 Qg6 20.Qc4 Bf7 21.Bxa7 Nxd5 22.exd5
29/42+ 01:09 189,822k 2,741k +1.85 3.Nxe5
29/42+ 01:10 193,049k 2,744k +1.93 3.Nxe5
29/42+ 01:16 210,632k 2,753k +2.04 3.Nxe5
29/42 01:18 217,344k 2,756k +1.86 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Be3 Bd6 10.Nd4 Nge7 11.Ncb5 0-0-0 12.c3 a6 13.Nxe6 Qxe6 14.Nxd6+ Rxd6 15.Qc2 Rhd8 16.0-0 Kb8 17.f4 g6 18.b4 f5 19.e5 Nd5 20.Bc4 Nxe3
30/40- 01:28 245,391k 2,765k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7
30/45+ 01:30 250,982k 2,766k +1.86 3.Nxe5
30/45+ 01:31 253,984k 2,768k +1.97 3.Nxe5
30/52 01:42 284,761k 2,776k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 d4 8.Nd5 Qd7 9.c4 Bd6 10.a3 a5 11.Bd2 a4 12.Nh4 Na5 13.Bxa5 Rxa5 14.0-0 Ne7 15.Bh5+ Kd8 16.f4 Kc8 17.f5 Bg8 18.g3 Ra6 19.Nf3 c5 20.Qe2 Nxd5 21.cxd5 Rb6 22.Rab1 Kb8
31/46 01:54 318,566k 2,782k +1.95 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.Nxd6+ Rxd6 14.b3 0-0 15.0-0 Qg6 16.Bc5 Rd7 17.Bd3 g4 18.Nh4 Qg5 19.Nf5 Qxc1 20.Nxe7+ Nxe7 21.Raxc1 b6 22.Be3 Kg7
32/45- 02:15 377,669k 2,784k +1.88 3.Nxe5 Qe7
32/45 02:21 394,256k 2,785k +1.93 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.b3 0-0 14.0-0 h6 15.Nxd6 cxd6 16.Nd4 Nxd4 17.Bxd4 d5 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Bf3 Qc7
33/43- 02:27 410,399k 2,786k +1.85 3.Nxe5 Qe7
33/47- 02:41 450,632k 2,792k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7
33/47+ 03:26 576,735k 2,797k +1.85 3.Bc4
33/47 03:42 622,319k 2,798k +1.82 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Bd6 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 Ne7 8.Qd1 h5 9.Nc3 b6 10.Nb5 Bc5 11.Bf4 d6 12.c3 a6 13.Nd4 Kf8 14.Re1 Bd7 15.Ne6+ Bxe6 16.Bxe6 Ng6 17.Qd2 b5 18.b4 Bb6 19.a4 bxa4 20.Rxa4 Nxf4 21.Qxf4 Qe7
34/42+ 03:57 665,008k 2,799k +1.90 3.Bc4
34/50- 04:44 796,418k 2,798k +1.75 3.Bc4 Nc6
34/50+ 05:43 958,306k 2,789k +1.86 3.Bc4
34/50 07:34 1,264,072k 2,784k +1.84 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Rd8 9.Nd5 Qd7 10.Bb5 a6 11.Ba4 b5 12.Bb3 Bd6 13.0-0 Nge7 14.c4 bxc4 15.Bxc4 0-0 16.Rc1 Kh8 17.Bxa6 Bxd5 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Bb5 Nxe3 20.fxe3 Qf7 21.Bxc6 Bxh2+ 22.Kxh2 Rxd1 23.Rcxd1 Qxa2
35/48+ 09:18 1,554,053k 2,784k +1.92 3.Bc4
35/48 10:12 1,705,371k 2,784k +1.94 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.0-0 d6 5.d4 Nge7 6.a4 h5 7.a5 a6 8.d5 Nb8 9.b4 Bg4 10.Bb3 Nd7 11.c4 c5 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 cxb4 14.Bd2 Nc5 15.Bxb4 Ng6 16.Bc2 Kf7 17.Nc3 Rc8 18.Rfb1 Nf4 19.h4 Be7 20.Bxc5 Rxc5 21.g3 Nh3+ 22.Kg2 Qd7 23.Rh1
36/46- 11:10 1,858,781k 2,771k +1.86 3.Bc4 Nc6
36/46- 11:40 1,933,916k 2,759k +1.79 3.Bc4 Nc6
36/47+ 12:43 2,090,861k 2,738k +1.86 3.Nxe5
36/55 13:30 2,170,070k 2,678k +1.74 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.c3 Bc4 14.Qc2 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 0-0 16.0-0 Qe6 17.Qc2 Rfe8 18.h4 h6 19.Nxd6 cxd6 20.hxg5 hxg5 21.a4 Ng6 22.a5 Nf4 23.Bxf4 gxf4 24.a6 bxa6
37/43- 14:02 2,231,638k 2,650k +1.66 3.Nxe5 Qe7
37/54+ 14:30 2,288,125k 2,628k +1.74 3.Nxe5
37/58+ 14:46 2,316,278k 2,614k +1.85 3.Nxe5
37/58 16:59 2,550,550k 2,501k +1.95 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Be6 6.Nd4 Nc6 7.Nxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 Qd7 9.0-0 Bd6 10.Nd2 f5 11.Bh5+ g6 12.exf5 Bxf5 13.Re1+ Kf7 14.Be2 Nf6 15.Nf3 c5 16.Bh6 Rhe8 17.Qd2 Rab8 18.Bg5 Nh5 19.b3 Kg8 20.d4 c6 21.c3 Bg4 22.Ne5 Bxe5 23.dxe5 Bxe2 24.Qxe2
38/56- 20:03 2,877,118k 2,391k +1.87 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/56- 20:11 2,894,711k 2,389k +1.80 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/56- 21:57 3,135,977k 2,380k +1.68 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/57+ 30:04 4,143,194k 2,296k +1.77 3.Bc4
38/57- 41:59 5,650,763k 2,243k +1.52 3.Bc4 Nc6
38/57 44:19 5,955,895k 2,239k +1.56 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.Bb3 Bg4 12.Nd4 Ne5 13.Qe3 c5 14.Nf5 Bxf5 15.exf5 0-0-0 16.Bd5 Kb8 17.Qe4 Re8 18.Rb1 Nd7 19.Be6 g6 20.Re1 gxf5 21.Bxf5 Qxe4 22.Rxe4 Rxe4 23.Bxe4 Kc7 24.Bf4
39/43+ 45:15 6,079,342k 2,239k +1.64 3.Bc4
39/43+ 45:25 6,101,742k 2,238k +1.71 3.Bc4
39/51 48:02 6,448,020k 2,237k +1.79 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.Bb3 Bd7 12.Be3 a6 13.Bd5 0-0-0 14.Qd4 c5 15.Qd3 Bg4 16.b4 Qd7 17.Bd2 Ne7 18.c4 Kb8 19.bxc5 dxc5 20.Rab1 Nxd5 21.cxd5 Bd6 22.Qxa6
40/42- 50:15 6,755,105k 2,240k +1.71 3.Bc4 Nc6
40/47- 51:02 6,856,622k 2,239k +1.64 3.Bc4 Nc6
40/55 56:12 7,507,203k 2,226k +1.63 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.a4 Bf5 22.b4 Rd7 23.b5 a5 24.b6 cxb6 25.Bxb6 Re5 26.Qg3 g5 27.Bd4 Re2 28.f3 Bg6
41/59+ 59:43 7,981,618k 2,227k +1.70 3.Nxe5
41/61+ 1:00:19 8,063,119k 2,228k +1.78 3.Nxe5
41/61+ 1:00:52 8,136,814k 2,228k +1.89 3.Nxe5
41/61 1:02:05 8,302,155k 2,229k +1.71 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Rd7 22.a4 Rde7 23.Bc5 Rd7 24.b5 a5 25.Bd4 Bd5 26.Qh3 Bc4 27.Rc1 f5 28.Bxg7 Rxg7 29.Qh4
42/61 1:04:12 8,595,722k 2,231k +1.70 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nef5 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Rd7 22.Qe3 Rd6 23.Qg3 Bd7 24.a4 Rde6 25.f3 g5 26.b5 axb5 27.axb5 Bxb5 28.Qh3 Kb8 29.Qxh7
43/60+ 1:06:35 8,904,665k 2,229k +1.77 3.Nxe5
43/66+ 1:07:40 9,041,293k 2,226k +1.85 3.Nxe5
43/66 1:08:44 9,173,100k 2,224k +1.84 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Bf5 22.a4 Rd6 23.Qf4 Bd7 24.f3 Re2 25.b5 g5 26.Qg3 Be6 27.b6 Rd7 28.a5 cxb6 29.axb6
44/62- 1:11:39 9,560,671k 2,224k +1.76 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62- 1:13:21 9,790,391k 2,224k +1.69 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62- 1:19:26 10,507,845k 2,205k +1.57 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62 1:24:18 11,118,583k 2,198k +1.61 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.h3 Rhe8 21.Bd4 Bd5 22.Qg3 Re6 23.a4 Bb3 24.Qh4 h5 25.Qg3 Bc2 26.a5 Bf8 27.Qh4 Be7 28.f3 Rd7 29.b4
45/59+ 1:52:58 15,299,495k 2,257k +1.68 3.Bc4
45/61- 2:35:18 21,028,464k 2,257k +1.53 3.Bc4 Nc6
45/62+ 2:38:46 21,497,885k 2,257k +1.65 3.Bc4
45/62+ 2:46:40 22,569,494k 2,257k +1.80 3.Bc4
45/65 3:39:40 30,605,474k 2,322k +1.67 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.b4 Bg4 12.Bb3 Ne5 13.Nxe5 dxe5 14.f4 Qd7 15.Qg3 exf4 16.Bxf4 0-0-0 17.e5 Re8 18.Rae1 fxe5 19.Rxe5 Rxe5 20.Bxe5 Bh5 21.Bc2 Kb8 22.Qg5 Be2 23.Re1 Bb5 24.a4 Bc6 25.Bf5 Qd5 26.a5 Bd6 27.Bxd6 Qxd6 28.Qxg7 Rf8 29.Qxh7
46/63+ 4:11:43 35,999,309k 2,383k +1.75 3.Nxe5
46/63- 4:13:31 36,310,435k 2,387k +1.60 3.Nxe5 Qe7
46/63+ 4:20:47 37,519,129k 2,398k +1.71 3.Bc4
46/63 4:42:45 41,137,072k 2,425k +1.73 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Nd4 Ne5 11.Bb3 d6 12.f4 Bg4 13.Qd2 Nd7 14.Qxd3 0-0-0 15.Qg3 Bh5 16.Ne6 Re8 17.Be3 Kb8 18.f5 Bf7 19.Rad1 g6 20.Qf2 b6 21.Qe2 Ne5 22.Bf4 c6 23.Rd2 gxf5 24.exf5 h5 25.Rfd1 h4 26.Nxf8 Qxf8 27.Rxd6 Bxb3
47/63- 5:07:59 45,075,659k 2,439k +1.66 3.Bc4 Nc6
47/63- 5:44:47 49,811,014k 2,408k +1.58 3.Bc4 Nc6
47/66+ 10:33:07 88,069,881k 2,318k +1.66 3.Nxe5
47/66+ 10:45:10 89,491,653k 2,312k +1.82 3.Nxe5
47/66 10:52:14 90,296,597k 2,307k +1.70 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Bf5 22.a4 h5 23.Qf4 Re6 24.f3 Bf8 25.Qh4 Bg7 26.Re1 g5 27.Qf2 Rde8 28.Rxe6 Rxe6 29.g3 Bf8 30.Kg2 Bg7
48/59+ 11:25:46 94,786,859k 2,304k +1.77 3.Nxe5
48/69+ 11:37:16 96,645,533k 2,310k +1.85 3.Nxe5
48/69 11:40:33 97,223,958k 2,313k +1.82 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 h5 22.a4 Bf5 23.Qf4 Re4 24.Qd2 Rde8 25.Be3 Rd8 26.Qb2 g5 27.Qb3 Bg6 28.Rd1 Rxd1+ 29.Qxd1 Re6 30.Qd5 Rd6 31.Qg8+ Rd8 32.Qe6+ Kb8 33.f3 h4 34.Qe7

Dann Corbit
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Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm
Stockfish does not see a clear win for white even after a long time.
I wonder if computers can win GM's with black from that position.
I think that given a large number of games, a computer can win with black from that position against itself.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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Eelco de Groot
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Location: Groningen

Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Eelco de Groot » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:37 am

This is not forced but it would give White a good score. The last PV sees mainly a King Safety advantage though (plus an exchange) and maybe it is too high. White even seems to sac a knight for King Safety advantage and it is almost an endgame already so I don't know if it is correct. Now I see White does get the rook on h8 in exchange for the knight. So it is not a real sac. (in the final diagram PV at 35 ply)

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2018.06.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nf3 d5 5. d3 dxe4 6. dxe4
Qxe4+ 7. Be3 Bd6 8. Nc3 Qe7 9. Qd5 Nc6 10. Qb3 Kf8
11. O-O-O a6 12. Bd3 b5 *
[/pgn]

Image

r1b2knr/2p1q1pp/p1nb1p2/1p6/8/1QNBBN2/PPP2PPP/2KR3R w - -

Engine: Kaissa III (512 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G. Linscott

17/15 0:01 +1.93 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 Rd8 17.Qxa6 Nge7 18.Nxe7 Nxe7
19.Nd4 h5 20.Nxe6+ Qxe6 (2.559.146) 1706

18/13 0:01 +1.89 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 f5 17.Nxc7 Bxc7 18.Ng5 Nf6
19.Qxd7 Bxd7 (3.190.438) 1693

19/13 0:02 +1.85 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 f5 17.Nxc7 Bxc7 18.Ng5 Nf6
19.Qxd7 Bxd7 (3.640.565) 1704

20/16 0:02 +1.86 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 Rd8 17.Qxa6 Nge7 18.Nxe7 Nxe7
19.Nd4 h5 20.Nxe6+ Qxe6 (4.754.498) 1720
.
.
.
31/28 12:01 +2.89 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 Rd8 17.Nxc7 Bxc7 18.Qxa6 Nb8
19.Qb7 Qc8 20.Qxb4+ Kf7 21.Bb7 Rxd1+
22.Rxd1 Qf8 (1.335.664.006) 1850

32/19 14:32 +2.82 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 Rd8 17.Nxc7 Bxc7 18.Qxa6 Nb8
19.Qb7 Qc8 20.Qxb4+ Kf7 21.Bb7 Rxd1+
22.Rxd1 (1.613.164.144) 1849

33/20 16:53 +2.75 13.Be4 Be6 14.Nd5 Qd7 15.Qc3 b4
16.Qd3 Rd8 17.Nxc7 Bxc7 18.Qxa6 Nb8
19.Qb7 Qc8 20.Qxb4+ Kf7 21.Bb7 Rxd1+
22.Rxd1 Qe8 (1.879.533.797) 1853

34/20 21:31 +2.82++ 13.Nd5 (2.406.252.712) 1863

34/20 26:17 +2.90++ 13.Nd5 (2.964.084.756) 1878

34/20 27:35 +3.01++ 13.Nd5 (3.110.189.331) 1878

34/33 45:28 +3.17++ 13.Nd5 (5.133.151.311) 1881

34/33 63:07 +3.17 13.Be4 Na5 14.Qd5 Bb7 15.Qd3 Nc6
16.a3 Re8 17.Bd5 Ne5 18.Nxe5 Bxd5
19.Nxd5 Qxe5 20.Bf4 Qe6 21.Bxd6+ Qxd6
22.Qf3 Qe5 23.Rhe1 Qxe1 24.Rxe1 Rxe1+
25.Kd2 Re8 26.Nxc7 (7.103.879.870) 1875

35/18 105:11 +3.24++ 13.Be4 (11.986.805.780) 1899

35/21 119:48 +3.32++ 13.Be4 (13.587.477.480) 1890

35/29 140:35 +3.29 13.Be4 Na5 14.Qd5 Bb7 15.Qd3 Nc6
16.a3 Re8 17.Bd5 Ne5 18.Nxe5 Bxd5
19.Nxd5 Qxe5 20.Bf4 Qe6 21.Bxd6+ Qxd6
22.Rhe1 c6 23.Rxe8+ Kxe8 24.Nxf6+ Qxf6
25.Qd7+ Kf8 26.Re1
{[D]5knr/3Q2pp/p1p2q2/1p6/8/P7/1PP2PPP/2K1R3 b - -
Image
} (15.773.608.376) 1870

36/22 162:18 +3.29 13.Be4 Na5 14.Qd5 Bb7 15.Qd3 Nc6
16.a3 Re8 17.Bd5 Ne5 18.Nxe5 Bxd5
19.Nxd5 Qxe5 20.Bf4 Qe4 21.Bxd6+ cxd6
22.Qd2 Qg4 23.Rhe1 Rxe1 24.Rxe1 (18.164.421.977) 1865
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

Dann Corbit
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
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Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Dann Corbit » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:56 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiano_Defence
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m= ... =3.5.5.830

Code: Select all

Searching: rnbqkbnr/pppp2pp/5p2/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0

 1   +1.23   00:00    3108  d4 
 2   +1.67   00:00   21965  Bc4 Nc6 
 3   +1.64   00:00   44686  d4 Nc6 Nc3 
 4   +1.54   00:00   63915  Nc3 d5 Nxd5 c6 
 5   +1.65   00:00   82176  Nc3 Bb4 Nd5 Bd6 d4 Ne7 
 6   +1.58   00:00  105638  d4 d6 Bc4 c6 dxe5 dxe5 
 7   +1.64   00:00  131955  Nc3 d5 Nxd5 Ne7 Ne3 Nbc6 Bc4 
 8   +1.32   00:00  154234  Nc3 d5 Nxd5 Ne7 Ne3 Nbc6 Bb5 Bd7 
 9   +1.65   00:00  179186  Nc3 d5 Nxd5 Ne7 Ne3 c6 d4 Ng6 dxe5 
10   +1.72   00:00  224085  Nc3 d6 d4 c6 Be2 Nd7 O-O Ne7 Be3 b5 a3 
11   +1.66   00:00  281714  Nc3 d6 d4 Be6 d5 Bf7 Be2 h5 O-O Nd7 Be3 Ne7 
12   +1.57   00:00  742534  Nc3 Nc6 d4 Bb4 d5 Nce7 Bc4 d6 O-O h5 Bd2 Kf8 a3 Bxc3 Bxc3 Bd7 
13   +1.51   00:00  981324  Nc3 Nc6 d4 Bb4 d5 Nce7 Be2 d6 O-O c6 dxc6 bxc6 Na4 Ba5 Be3 
14   +1.95   00:00   2680K  d4 exd4 Nxd4 Nc6 Nc3 Nxd4 Qxd4 c6 Bc4 b5 Bb3 h5 a3 Qb6 
15   +1.51   00:00   4588K  d4 d5 exd5 e4 Nfd2 f5 Bb5+ c6 dxc6 bxc6 Be2 Qxd4 O-O Be6 Nc4 Qxd1 Rxd1 Nd7 Be3 Ngf6 Nc3 
16   +1.64   00:00   6200K  Nc3 Nc6 Bc4 d6 h3 Na5 Bxg8 Rxg8 d4 Nc6 d5 Ne7 O-O Bd7 Be3 g5 Nh2 Ng6 Qh5 Rg7 
17   +1.58   00:01  10782K  Bc4 c6 Nc3 Bb4 Bb3 d5 exd5 Bxc3 dxc3 cxd5 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Ne7 Bb3 Nbc6 Be3 Na5 Ba4+ Bd7 Bxd7+ Kxd7 O-O-O+ Kc7 Kb1 Rhe8 
18   +2.03   00:02  21781K  Bc4 d5 exd5 c6 Nc3 Ne7 d4 e4 Nd2 cxd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qh5+ g6 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 f5 Nc4 Nc6 
19   +1.88   00:03  35157K  Bc4 d6 d4 Nc6 Be3 Bg4 c3 Qd7 Nbd2 exd4 cxd4 Na5 d5 Nxc4 Nxc4 c5 O-O Bh5 Qc2 b5 Na5 Ne7 h3 
20   +1.75   00:04  43454K  Bc4 Nc6 d4 exd4 Nxd4 Nxd4 Qxd4 Ne7 Bb3 d5 Be3 Nc6 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Bd7 Nc3 O-O-O Rd1 Be7 O-O Kb8 Bb3 h5 h3 
21   +1.94   00:07  71115K  Nxe5 Ne7 Nf3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 d4 Bd6 Be2 O-O O-O Re8 c4 Nf4 Bxf4 Bxf4 Nc3 c6 Re1 Bg4 Qb3 Qc8 c5+ Kh8 d5 
22   +1.89   00:09  83879K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 Nc6 Nc3 Be6 Be3 dxe4 dxe4 Qf7 Nb5 a6 Nbd4 O-O-O Bd3 Nxd4 Nxd4 Bc4 O-O Kb8 Nf3 Bxd3 cxd3 Bd6 d4 
23   +1.63   00:13 122289K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 Bf4 Bb4 O-O Bxc3 bxc3 Nge7 Bxc7 O-O Re1 Qf7 Qd6 Re8 Rab1 Ng6 Nd4 Nce5 Bh5 b6 
24   +1.65   00:15 143554K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 Nc6 Nc3 Be6 Be3 dxe4 dxe4 Rd8 Bd3 Nh6 h3 Nf7 O-O Qd7 Nd2 Bb4 f4 f5 Nb3 Nd6 Nc5 Bxc5 Bxc5 fxe4 Nxe4 Nxe4 Bxe4 Qxd1 Raxd1 
25   +1.64   00:17 158168K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be3 Nc6 Nc3 Bb4 Bd3 Qe7 O-O Be6 Nb5 O-O-O c3 Bc5 Bxc5 Qxc5 Nfd4 Bd7 Nxc6 Bxc6 Qg4+ Kb8 Nd4 Ne7 Rae1 Nd5 Qxg7 
26   +1.69   00:21 197699K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 Bf4 Bb4 O-O Bxc3 bxc3 Nge7 Nd4 Qf7 Bh5 g6 Bf3 Ne5 Re1 Nxf3+ Qxf3 O-O Bxc7 Nf5 Bf4 Nxd4 cxd4 Bf5 
27   +1.55   00:23 215179K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 Bf4 Bb4 O-O Bxc3 bxc3 Nge7 Nd4 Qf7 Bh5 g6 Bf3 Ne5 Re1 Nxf3+ Qxf3 O-O Rab1 Qxa2 Nb5 
28   +1.44   00:34 316470K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 Bf4 Bb4 Nd4 Qe4 Nxc6 Bxc3+ bxc3 bxc6 Qd2 Ne7 O-O Qd5 Bd3 O-O c4 Qf7 Bxc7 Bf5 Rfe1 Bxd3 cxd3 Ng6 Bd6 Rfe8 c5 Qd5 
29   +1.52   00:41 379753K  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 Bf4 Bb4 Nd4 Nxd4 Qxd4 Qb6 O-O-O Qxd4 Rxd4 Bxc3 bxc3 Be6 Bh5+ g6 Bf3 c6 Re1 Kf7 Rb4 Bc8 Bd6 h5 Re3 g5 h4 g4 Be2 b6 Bc4+ Kg7 Re8 Nh6 Re7+ Kg6 Bd3+ Bf5 
30   +1.62   01:04 603585K  Bc4 Nc6 d4 exd4 O-O Nge7 c3 Na5 Bd3 dxc3 Nxc3 d6 Be3 g6 Nd5 Bg7 Rc1 c5 Be2 Nac6 Bc4 Na5 Nd2 Nac6 Nf4 a6 Ne6 Bxe6 Bxe6 b5 f4 f5 exf5 Nxf5 Bxf5 gxf5 Qh5+ Ke7 Qxf5 Bxb2 
31   +1.50   01:46   1001M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 O-O Ne7 c3 d3 Nd2 Ng6 Nf3 Qe7 Bxd3 Ne5 Nxe5 fxe5 Be3 b6 Bc4 h5 Qd5 c6 Qd1 Qd6 f4 exf4 Rxf4 Qxd1+ Rxd1 Be7 Bf7+ Kd8 Rf5 d6 Rxh5 Rxh5 
32   +1.51   02:18   1302M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 O-O Ne7 c3 d3 Nd2 Ng6 Nf3 d6 Qxd3 Qe7 h3 a6 Be3 Bd7 Bd5 O-O-O Qd4 c5 Qd3 Kb8 c4 Be6 Rad1 Bxd5 exd5 Qf7 Qc3 Ne5 Nxe5 
33   +1.48   02:50   1602M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 O-O Ne7 c3 d3 Qxd3 Ng6 f4 Bc5+ Kh1 d5 exd5 O-O Nd2 Bb6 a4 a5 b3 Re8 d6+ Kh8 Bf7 Re3 Qc2 cxd6 Ne4 Bf5 Bxe3 Bxe3 Rae1 Qb6 Bxg6 Bxg6 
34   +1.48   03:41   2077M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 O-O Ne7 c3 d3 Bb3 Ng6 Be3 b6 Qxd3 Ne5 Qd1 Bb7 f4 Nf7 Re1 Be7 Nd2 O-O Bf2 a5 Qg4 a4 Bc4 Kh8 Qh3 Bd6 g3 Bc5 Bxc5 bxc5 Qh5 Nd6 Qxc5 Nxc4 
35   +1.41   05:54   3357M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 Be3 Bc5 Be4 Bf5 Bd3 Kb8 Qd2 Bxd3 cxd3 Rhe8 b4 Bb6 Re1 Nc6 a3 Nd4 a4 Nf5 Bxb6 Rxe1+ Qxe1 cxb6 
36   +1.32   07:28   4252M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 Qxd4 Ne7 Bb3 d5 Nc3 Nc6 Qd1 Bb4 exd5 Na5 O-O O-O Bf4 Bd6 Qd2 Re8 Ba4 Bd7 b3 Bxa4 Bxd6 Qxd6 Nxa4 b6 Rfe1 Nb7 c4 Nc5 Nc3 c6 Qd4 cxd5 Nxd5 
37   +1.40   09:32   5415M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 Qxd4 Ne7 Nc3 Nc6 Qe3 Bd6 Bd2 b6 O-O-O Bb7 f4 Na5 Bd3 Qe7 Kb1 O-O-O Rhe1 Kb8 a3 Nc6 Bc4 g5 g3 Rhe8 Qd3 Qf8 Bd5 gxf4 gxf4 a6 Qh3 Nd4 Be3 Ne6 
38   +1.38   11:04   6285M  Bc4 Nc6 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 exd4 Qxd4 Ne7 Nc3 Nc6 Qe3 Bd6 f4 b6 a3 Bb7 Qd3 Qe7 Bd2 O-O-O O-O-O Rhe8 Rhe1 Kb8 Kb1 Qf8 Bd5 Na5 Ba2 Nc6 g3 Bc5 Na4 Bd6 Rf1 a6 Bd5 b5 Nc3 Bc5 Be3 Bxe3 Qxe3 
39   +1.43   13:47   7828M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bg4 f5 Bf3 Bg7 Be3 Bf7 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qe1 c6 Ne2 Rd7 Qa5 Kb8 Nf4 Nf6 Nd3 Re8 Ne5 Rc7 Re1 Bg8 Qb4 c5 Qb5 Bxa2 Qa5 Bf7 Kh1 
40   +1.57   14:29   8231M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 Bf4 Kb8 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Re1 Rhe8 Qg3 Rd7 a4 Bf8 a5 Red8 a6 g5 Be3 Rd1 Bxa7+ Kxa7 Qe3+ c5 Qxe6 R8d6 Qe2 Rxe1+ Qxe1 Rxa6 g4 Kb6 Kg2 Kc7 
41   +1.47   17:16   9854M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Be3 a6 Bd4 Rhe8 b4 h5 a4 Bf5 b5 Rd6 Qd1 Bh6 Qb3 a5 b6 Rde6 f3 Bf4 bxc7 Bxc7 Rd1 Re1+ Rxe1 Rxe1+ Kf2 Re6 Qd5 
42   +1.52   17:43  10114M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Be3 a6 Bd4 Rhe8 b4 h5 Qg3 Bf5 f3 Re2 a4 Re6 b5 Bd3 Rd1 Bc2 Rc1 Bf5 Re1 Rdd6 Rxe6 
43   +1.47   21:19  12197M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Bf4 O-O-O Nb5 Ne5 Nxa7+ Kb8 Nb5 Be7 Nbd4 Qd6 Bg3 Nh6 a4 Nf5 Nxe5 fxe5 Nxf5 Bxf5 Qxd6 Bxd6 c3 Rhe8 Rfd1 Bc2 Rd2 Bb3 Bd1 Bxd1 Rdxd1 e4 Bh4 Rd7 Bg5 Re6 Be3 Kc8 a5 Be5 Rxd7 Kxd7 Rc1 Kd6 
44   +1.55   28:38  16433M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Be3 a6 Bd4 Rhe8 b4 h5 a4 Bf5 Qf4 Re6 f3 Bf8 a5 Be7 Qd2 g5 Rd1 h4 g4 hxg3 hxg3 Kb8 Qa2 
45   +1.69   35:38  20491M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Be3 a6 Bd4 Rhe8 b4 h5 a4 Bf5 Qf4 Re4 Qd2 Re6 f3 Bf8 Qf4 a5 bxa5 Rd5 Qh4 Be7 Re1 Rxe1+ Qxe1 Kd7 Qd1 Rxa5 Qb3 Kc8 
46   +1.51   41:24  23851M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Nd4 Nxd4 Bh5+ g6 Re1 O-O-O Rxe6 Bxe6 Bf3 Ne7 Nb5 Nec6 Nxd4 Nxd4 c3 Nxf3+ Qxf3 Bg7 Be3 a6 Bd4 Rhe8 a4 h5 Qf4 Bf5 b4 Re4 Qc1 Re6 f3 Re2 Qf4 Bf8 b5 Bd6 Qh4 Be5 bxa6 bxa6 Bxe5 fxe5 Qc4 
47   +1.63 1:16:22  44252M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Nc6 Nc3 Bg4 Be3 Rd8 Bd3 Qf7 O-O Bb4 h3 Bxf3 Qxf3 Ne5 Qg3 Qg6 Qxg6+ hxg6 Bb5+ c6 Be2 g5 Rfd1 Rxd1+ Rxd1 Bxc3 bxc3 b6 a4 Ne7 a5 Nc8 f3 Ke7 axb6 axb6 Ra1 Kd7 Kf2 b5 Kg3 Kc7 Bd4 Kd6 Ra6 Kc7 Bxe5+ fxe5 c4 b4 
48   +1.55 1:36:59  56245M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Bf4 O-O-O Nb5 Ne5 Nxa7+ Kb8 Nb5 Be7 Nbd4 Qd6 Bg3 Nh6 Re1 Nf5 Nxf5 Bxf5 Qc1 Qc5 Nxe5 fxe5 Bd3 e4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Rxe4 Bd6 Bxd6 Rxd6 c3 Rhd8 Re2 Rd3 h3 Qd5 c4 Qa5 Qc2 Rd2 Rxd2 Qxd2 Qxh7 Qxb2 Re1 Qxa2 Qe4 
49   +1.71 3:47:27 133144M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 dxe4 dxe4 Qxe4+ Be2 Nc6 Nc3 Qe6 O-O Bd7 Bf4 O-O-O Nb5 Ne5 Nxa7+ Kb8 Nb5 Bc5 b4 Qe7 bxc5 Bxb5 Qe1 Bxe2 Qxe2 Qxc5 Bxe5 fxe5 Rab1 Nf6 Rb5 Qa3 Rb3 Qc5 Nxe5 b6 c4 Rhe8 Re3 Kb7 Re1 Rd4 Qf3+ c6 Qg3 g6 Qf3 Rf8 Qh3 Re8 Qg3 Rc8 Qg5 Nd7 Qh6 Rc7 Nf3 Rg4 Qxh7 Qxc4 Ra3 Qd5 
50   +1.78 8:20:11 291921M  Nxe5 Qe7 Nf3 d5 d3 Be6 Be3 Nc6 Nc3 dxe4 dxe4 a6 Nd5 Qd7 c4 Bb4+ Nxb4 Qxd1+ Rxd1 Nxb4 Nd4 Bd7 a3 Nc6 Nb3 b6 Be2 Nge7 f4 O-O-O Kf2 f5 e5 g5 g3 Be6 Nd4 Nxd4 Bxd4 g4 h3 h5 h4 Nc6 Bc3 Ne7 b4 Rxd1 Rxd1 Rd8 Rxd8+ Kxd8 Bd3 Kd7 b5 axb5 cxb5 Bb3 Ke3 Ke6 
Nodes: 291921740713
Nodes/second: 9727145
Best move: Nxe5
Ponder move: Qe7
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

peter
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am

Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by peter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:06 am

Uri Blass wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm
Stockfish does not see a clear win for white even after a long time.
I wonder if computers can win GM's with black from that position.

FEN: rnbqkbnr/pppp2pp/5p2/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3
...
Stockfish_18062110_x64_modern:
48/69 11:40:33 97,223,958k 2,313k +1.82 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 h5 22.a4 Bf5 23.Qf4 Re4 24.Qd2 Rde8 25.Be3 Rd8 26.Qb2 g5 27.Qb3 Bg6 28.Rd1 Rxd1+ 29.Qxd1 Re6 30.Qd5 Rd6 31.Qg8+ Rd8 32.Qe6+ Kb8 33.f3 h4 34.Qe7
How much more than 1.8 do you expect at move 3?
And as for the output- line, of course you cannot hope for more than a few plies being trustable, just the same as for other non-forced positions and lines. Mate in x can be precise over many moves, "postional" positions and lines can't.
Here e.g. 8.0-0 has better theory already and helps raising the evals.
To your question if computers with Black can win that against GMs, no, they can't, because GMs wouldn't give them a try.
:)
Peter Martan

Dann Corbit
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Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Dann Corbit » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:45 pm

Here are some games where black won or drew from this position.
Attachments
odd.7z
Of 67 games, there were 3 wins for black and 4 draws
(4.48 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Dann Corbit
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
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Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Dann Corbit » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:47 pm

The full file of all games
Attachments
Damiano.7z
The full file of all games
(249.15 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Karol Majewski
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Karol Majewski » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:22 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm
Stockfish does not see a clear win for white even after a long time.
I wonder if computers can win GM's with black from that position.


FEN: rnbqkbnr/pppp2pp/5p2/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3

Stockfish_18062110_x64_modern:
1/1 00:00 136 68k +1.44 3.d4
2/2 00:00 201 101k +2.58 3.d4 exd4
3/3 00:00 328 164k +2.37 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4
4/4 00:00 615 308k +1.58 3.d4 d6 4.d5 a6
5/6 00:00 2k 548k +2.20 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Qd3
6/6 00:00 2k 807k +1.50 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 h5 5.Nf5 Nc6
7/7 00:00 4k 953k +1.70 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 h5 5.Nf5 Nc6 6.Bf4
8/8 00:00 15k 1,693k +1.68 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Nxd4 6.Qxd4 h5
9/12 00:00 49k 1,744k +2.28 3.d4 Nc6 4.d5 Nce7 5.Bc4 h5 6.d6 cxd6 7.Nc3
10/13 00:00 93k 1,822k +1.99 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bc4 Qe7 5.0-0 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 c6 8.Qc3
11/15 00:00 133k 1,929k +1.99 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Nge7 6.d5 Na5 7.Be2 Bd7 8.Nc3 c6
12/17 00:00 378k 2,348k +1.83 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.d4 exd4 6.Nb5 a6 7.Nbxd4 Na5 8.Bb3 Ne7 9.0-0 Nxb3 10.Nxb3
13/20 00:00 663k 2,482k +1.81 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 Bb4 5.d5 Nce7 6.Be2 d6 7.0-0 c6 8.Nh4 Bxc3 9.bxc3 cxd5 10.exd5 e4 11.Bb5+ Kf8
14/20 00:00 1,326k 2,621k +1.64 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.d4 Nc6 5.Bc4 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.0-0 Na5 8.Be2 Ne7 9.dxe5 fxe5 10.Bg5 c6
15/23 00:00 1,646k 2,605k +1.78 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Bxc3 6.dxc3 Ne7 7.Nh4 h5 8.Be2 Bg4 9.Bxg4 hxg4 10.Qxg4 Nbc6 11.Nf5 Nxf5 12.Qxf5
16/27 00:01 3,521k 2,614k +1.78 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.Bc4 Qd6 11.Qg5 Qd7 12.Ba3 b5 13.Bb3 b4 14.Bxb4 Nc6 15.0-0 Nxb4
17/32 00:01 5,077k 2,683k +1.62 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.Bc4 Qd6 11.Qg5 Qe7 12.a4 Nd5 13.Qxe7+ Nxe7 14.Ba3
18/29 00:02 5,576k 2,698k +1.69 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.f3 Be6 11.c4 Qa5 12.Rb1 Bd7 13.Rxb7 0-0 14.Be2
19/30 00:02 6,959k 2,718k +1.79 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 e4 5.Qe2 Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Nd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 f5 9.Qe3 Nf6 10.f3 Qc6 11.fxe4 Nxe4 12.Nxe4 Qxe4 13.Bd3 Qxe3+ 14.Bxe3 Be6
20/30- 00:03 10,516k 2,761k +1.71 3.d4 d5
20/30 00:05 14,827k 2,771k +1.76 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.d3 Nge7 7.Be3 a6 8.h3 Bxf3 9.Qxf3 Qd7 10.a4 0-0-0 11.Qd1 Nd4 12.Bxd4 exd4 13.Ne2
21/30+ 00:05 16,435k 2,746k +1.83 3.d4
21/30+ 00:06 17,184k 2,749k +1.91 3.d4
21/33- 00:07 19,586k 2,761k +1.68 3.d4 d5
21/33+ 00:07 21,439k 2,764k +1.85 3.Bc4
21/33+ 00:08 22,641k 2,763k +2.07 3.Bc4
21/33 00:10 28,339k 2,757k +2.10 3.Bc4 d5 4.exd5 Ne7 5.d4 e4 6.Nh4 c6 7.dxc6 Nbxc6 8.c3 a6 9.0-0 b5 10.Bb3 Na5 11.Re1 Nxb3 12.axb3 Bb7 13.c4 bxc4 14.bxc4 Qc7 15.d5 Qxc4
22/34- 00:10 29,389k 2,757k +2.03 3.Bc4 d5
22/34- 00:11 31,066k 2,756k +1.95 3.Bc4 d5
22/37- 00:12 33,854k 2,757k +1.84 3.Bc4 c6
22/37+ 00:12 35,495k 2,756k +1.93 3.Bc4
22/37 00:16 44,968k 2,764k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.exd5 Bxd5+ 8.Be3 0-0-0 9.Be2 Be6 10.0-0 Kb8 11.d4 Qf7 12.Re1 Nge7 13.Bd3 Bd5 14.Nxd5 Nxd5
23/35+ 00:17 48,311k 2,765k +2.04 3.Nxe5
23/35 00:17 49,235k 2,764k +2.05 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 0-0-0 8.exd5 Bxd5 9.Nxd5 Rxd5 10.Be2 Nh6 11.0-0 Nf5 12.Bd2 g5 13.c4 Rd8 14.Bc3 Kb8 15.Nxg5 Nfd4 16.Ne4 Nxe2+ 17.Qxe2 Nd4
24/38- 00:19 52,758k 2,776k +1.98 3.Nxe5 Qe7
24/38- 00:19 53,094k 2,777k +1.90 3.Nxe5 Qe7
24/41 00:19 54,292k 2,780k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Bf5 8.Nc3 Qxc2 9.Qxc2 Bxc2 10.Nd4 Bg6 11.Bf4 Nc6 12.Ne6 Bd6 13.Bxd6 cxd6 14.Nc7+ Kd7 15.Nxa8 Nge7 16.0-0-0 Rxa8 17.Rd2 Bf7 18.Rhd1 d5 19.Bf3 d4 20.Ne2 Re8 21.Nxd4
25/41+ 00:22 61,336k 2,780k +2.05 3.Nxe5
25/41+ 00:22 62,990k 2,782k +2.12 3.Nxe5
25/45 00:24 68,815k 2,781k +1.99 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Rd8 9.Bd3 Nh6 10.Nd5 Qf7 11.h3 Bxd5 12.exd5 Bb4+ 13.Kf1 Qxd5 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.a3 Bf8 16.Qe2+ Ne5 17.Be4 Qc4 18.Nxe5 Qxe2+ 19.Kxe2 fxe5 20.Bxb7
26/40- 00:28 78,872k 2,786k +1.92 3.Nxe5 Qe7
26/40+ 00:29 81,297k 2,788k +1.99 3.Nxe5
26/42 00:30 86,168k 2,790k +1.90 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.Bf4 Bb4 10.0-0 Bxc3 11.bxc3 Nge7 12.Re1 0-0 13.Nd4 Qf7 14.Bxc7 Nxd4 15.Qxd4 Nc6 16.Qf4 g5 17.Qd6 Be6 18.Bd3 Ne5 19.Be4
27/43- 00:34 95,507k 2,754k +1.82 3.Nxe5 Qe7
27/43+ 00:36 98,896k 2,741k +1.90 3.Nxe5
27/43+ 00:36 100,781k 2,737k +2.01 3.Nxe5
27/43 00:39 107,653k 2,733k +1.96 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Nh6 9.Bb5 Ng4 10.Qe2 Nxe3 11.Qxe3 0-0-0 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Qxa7 Qc5 14.Qa6+ Kb8 15.0-0 Qb6 16.Qe2 Bd6 17.Rad1 Rhe8 18.Nd4 Bd7 19.Rfe1
28/43+ 00:44 118,915k 2,697k +2.04 3.Nxe5
28/43- 00:45 123,303k 2,701k +1.89 3.Nxe5 Qe7
28/43+ 00:46 125,235k 2,703k +2.00 3.Nxe5
28/43- 00:49 133,960k 2,707k +1.77 3.Nxe5 Qe7
28/43 00:54 149,211k 2,717k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.0-0 Bd6 10.Nd5 Nge7 11.c4 0-0 12.Be3 b6 13.Qc2 Rad8 14.Rad1 Ng6 15.c5 bxc5 16.Bxc5 Nce5 17.Nxe5 fxe5 18.Be3 Nf4 19.Bf3 Qg6 20.Qc4 Bf7 21.Bxa7 Nxd5 22.exd5
29/42+ 01:09 189,822k 2,741k +1.85 3.Nxe5
29/42+ 01:10 193,049k 2,744k +1.93 3.Nxe5
29/42+ 01:16 210,632k 2,753k +2.04 3.Nxe5
29/42 01:18 217,344k 2,756k +1.86 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Be3 Bd6 10.Nd4 Nge7 11.Ncb5 0-0-0 12.c3 a6 13.Nxe6 Qxe6 14.Nxd6+ Rxd6 15.Qc2 Rhd8 16.0-0 Kb8 17.f4 g6 18.b4 f5 19.e5 Nd5 20.Bc4 Nxe3
30/40- 01:28 245,391k 2,765k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7
30/45+ 01:30 250,982k 2,766k +1.86 3.Nxe5
30/45+ 01:31 253,984k 2,768k +1.97 3.Nxe5
30/52 01:42 284,761k 2,776k +1.97 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 d4 8.Nd5 Qd7 9.c4 Bd6 10.a3 a5 11.Bd2 a4 12.Nh4 Na5 13.Bxa5 Rxa5 14.0-0 Ne7 15.Bh5+ Kd8 16.f4 Kc8 17.f5 Bg8 18.g3 Ra6 19.Nf3 c5 20.Qe2 Nxd5 21.cxd5 Rb6 22.Rab1 Kb8
31/46 01:54 318,566k 2,782k +1.95 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.Nxd6+ Rxd6 14.b3 0-0 15.0-0 Qg6 16.Bc5 Rd7 17.Bd3 g4 18.Nh4 Qg5 19.Nf5 Qxc1 20.Nxe7+ Nxe7 21.Raxc1 b6 22.Be3 Kg7
32/45- 02:15 377,669k 2,784k +1.88 3.Nxe5 Qe7
32/45 02:21 394,256k 2,785k +1.93 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.b3 0-0 14.0-0 h6 15.Nxd6 cxd6 16.Nd4 Nxd4 17.Bxd4 d5 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Bf3 Qc7
33/43- 02:27 410,399k 2,786k +1.85 3.Nxe5 Qe7
33/47- 02:41 450,632k 2,792k +1.78 3.Nxe5 Qe7
33/47+ 03:26 576,735k 2,797k +1.85 3.Bc4
33/47 03:42 622,319k 2,798k +1.82 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Bd6 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 Ne7 8.Qd1 h5 9.Nc3 b6 10.Nb5 Bc5 11.Bf4 d6 12.c3 a6 13.Nd4 Kf8 14.Re1 Bd7 15.Ne6+ Bxe6 16.Bxe6 Ng6 17.Qd2 b5 18.b4 Bb6 19.a4 bxa4 20.Rxa4 Nxf4 21.Qxf4 Qe7
34/42+ 03:57 665,008k 2,799k +1.90 3.Bc4
34/50- 04:44 796,418k 2,798k +1.75 3.Bc4 Nc6
34/50+ 05:43 958,306k 2,789k +1.86 3.Bc4
34/50 07:34 1,264,072k 2,784k +1.84 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be3 dxe4 8.dxe4 Rd8 9.Nd5 Qd7 10.Bb5 a6 11.Ba4 b5 12.Bb3 Bd6 13.0-0 Nge7 14.c4 bxc4 15.Bxc4 0-0 16.Rc1 Kh8 17.Bxa6 Bxd5 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Bb5 Nxe3 20.fxe3 Qf7 21.Bxc6 Bxh2+ 22.Kxh2 Rxd1 23.Rcxd1 Qxa2
35/48+ 09:18 1,554,053k 2,784k +1.92 3.Bc4
35/48 10:12 1,705,371k 2,784k +1.94 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.0-0 d6 5.d4 Nge7 6.a4 h5 7.a5 a6 8.d5 Nb8 9.b4 Bg4 10.Bb3 Nd7 11.c4 c5 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 cxb4 14.Bd2 Nc5 15.Bxb4 Ng6 16.Bc2 Kf7 17.Nc3 Rc8 18.Rfb1 Nf4 19.h4 Be7 20.Bxc5 Rxc5 21.g3 Nh3+ 22.Kg2 Qd7 23.Rh1
36/46- 11:10 1,858,781k 2,771k +1.86 3.Bc4 Nc6
36/46- 11:40 1,933,916k 2,759k +1.79 3.Bc4 Nc6
36/47+ 12:43 2,090,861k 2,738k +1.86 3.Nxe5
36/55 13:30 2,170,070k 2,678k +1.74 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Nc6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.Be2 dxe4 8.dxe4 Qf7 9.Bf4 Rd8 10.Qc1 g5 11.Be3 Bd6 12.Nb5 Nge7 13.c3 Bc4 14.Qc2 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 0-0 16.0-0 Qe6 17.Qc2 Rfe8 18.h4 h6 19.Nxd6 cxd6 20.hxg5 hxg5 21.a4 Ng6 22.a5 Nf4 23.Bxf4 gxf4 24.a6 bxa6
37/43- 14:02 2,231,638k 2,650k +1.66 3.Nxe5 Qe7
37/54+ 14:30 2,288,125k 2,628k +1.74 3.Nxe5
37/58+ 14:46 2,316,278k 2,614k +1.85 3.Nxe5
37/58 16:59 2,550,550k 2,501k +1.95 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 Be6 6.Nd4 Nc6 7.Nxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 Qd7 9.0-0 Bd6 10.Nd2 f5 11.Bh5+ g6 12.exf5 Bxf5 13.Re1+ Kf7 14.Be2 Nf6 15.Nf3 c5 16.Bh6 Rhe8 17.Qd2 Rab8 18.Bg5 Nh5 19.b3 Kg8 20.d4 c6 21.c3 Bg4 22.Ne5 Bxe5 23.dxe5 Bxe2 24.Qxe2
38/56- 20:03 2,877,118k 2,391k +1.87 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/56- 20:11 2,894,711k 2,389k +1.80 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/56- 21:57 3,135,977k 2,380k +1.68 3.Nxe5 Qe7
38/57+ 30:04 4,143,194k 2,296k +1.77 3.Bc4
38/57- 41:59 5,650,763k 2,243k +1.52 3.Bc4 Nc6
38/57 44:19 5,955,895k 2,239k +1.56 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.Bb3 Bg4 12.Nd4 Ne5 13.Qe3 c5 14.Nf5 Bxf5 15.exf5 0-0-0 16.Bd5 Kb8 17.Qe4 Re8 18.Rb1 Nd7 19.Be6 g6 20.Re1 gxf5 21.Bxf5 Qxe4 22.Rxe4 Rxe4 23.Bxe4 Kc7 24.Bf4
39/43+ 45:15 6,079,342k 2,239k +1.64 3.Bc4
39/43+ 45:25 6,101,742k 2,238k +1.71 3.Bc4
39/51 48:02 6,448,020k 2,237k +1.79 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.Bb3 Bd7 12.Be3 a6 13.Bd5 0-0-0 14.Qd4 c5 15.Qd3 Bg4 16.b4 Qd7 17.Bd2 Ne7 18.c4 Kb8 19.bxc5 dxc5 20.Rab1 Nxd5 21.cxd5 Bd6 22.Qxa6
40/42- 50:15 6,755,105k 2,240k +1.71 3.Bc4 Nc6
40/47- 51:02 6,856,622k 2,239k +1.64 3.Bc4 Nc6
40/55 56:12 7,507,203k 2,226k +1.63 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.a4 Bf5 22.b4 Rd7 23.b5 a5 24.b6 cxb6 25.Bxb6 Re5 26.Qg3 g5 27.Bd4 Re2 28.f3 Bg6
41/59+ 59:43 7,981,618k 2,227k +1.70 3.Nxe5
41/61+ 1:00:19 8,063,119k 2,228k +1.78 3.Nxe5
41/61+ 1:00:52 8,136,814k 2,228k +1.89 3.Nxe5
41/61 1:02:05 8,302,155k 2,229k +1.71 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Rd7 22.a4 Rde7 23.Bc5 Rd7 24.b5 a5 25.Bd4 Bd5 26.Qh3 Bc4 27.Rc1 f5 28.Bxg7 Rxg7 29.Qh4
42/61 1:04:12 8,595,722k 2,231k +1.70 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nef5 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Rd7 22.Qe3 Rd6 23.Qg3 Bd7 24.a4 Rde6 25.f3 g5 26.b5 axb5 27.axb5 Bxb5 28.Qh3 Kb8 29.Qxh7
43/60+ 1:06:35 8,904,665k 2,229k +1.77 3.Nxe5
43/66+ 1:07:40 9,041,293k 2,226k +1.85 3.Nxe5
43/66 1:08:44 9,173,100k 2,224k +1.84 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Bf5 22.a4 Rd6 23.Qf4 Bd7 24.f3 Re2 25.b5 g5 26.Qg3 Be6 27.b6 Rd7 28.a5 cxb6 29.axb6
44/62- 1:11:39 9,560,671k 2,224k +1.76 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62- 1:13:21 9,790,391k 2,224k +1.69 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62- 1:19:26 10,507,845k 2,205k +1.57 3.Nxe5 Qe7
44/62 1:24:18 11,118,583k 2,198k +1.61 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.h3 Rhe8 21.Bd4 Bd5 22.Qg3 Re6 23.a4 Bb3 24.Qh4 h5 25.Qg3 Bc2 26.a5 Bf8 27.Qh4 Be7 28.f3 Rd7 29.b4
45/59+ 1:52:58 15,299,495k 2,257k +1.68 3.Bc4
45/61- 2:35:18 21,028,464k 2,257k +1.53 3.Bc4 Nc6
45/62+ 2:38:46 21,497,885k 2,257k +1.65 3.Bc4
45/62+ 2:46:40 22,569,494k 2,257k +1.80 3.Bc4
45/65 3:39:40 30,605,474k 2,322k +1.67 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 d6 10.Qxd3 Qe7 11.b4 Bg4 12.Bb3 Ne5 13.Nxe5 dxe5 14.f4 Qd7 15.Qg3 exf4 16.Bxf4 0-0-0 17.e5 Re8 18.Rae1 fxe5 19.Rxe5 Rxe5 20.Bxe5 Bh5 21.Bc2 Kb8 22.Qg5 Be2 23.Re1 Bb5 24.a4 Bc6 25.Bf5 Qd5 26.a5 Bd6 27.Bxd6 Qxd6 28.Qxg7 Rf8 29.Qxh7
46/63+ 4:11:43 35,999,309k 2,383k +1.75 3.Nxe5
46/63- 4:13:31 36,310,435k 2,387k +1.60 3.Nxe5 Qe7
46/63+ 4:20:47 37,519,129k 2,398k +1.71 3.Bc4
46/63 4:42:45 41,137,072k 2,425k +1.73 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.0-0 Ne7 7.c3 d3 8.Nd2 Ng6 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Nd4 Ne5 11.Bb3 d6 12.f4 Bg4 13.Qd2 Nd7 14.Qxd3 0-0-0 15.Qg3 Bh5 16.Ne6 Re8 17.Be3 Kb8 18.f5 Bf7 19.Rad1 g6 20.Qf2 b6 21.Qe2 Ne5 22.Bf4 c6 23.Rd2 gxf5 24.exf5 h5 25.Rfd1 h4 26.Nxf8 Qxf8 27.Rxd6 Bxb3
47/63- 5:07:59 45,075,659k 2,439k +1.66 3.Bc4 Nc6
47/63- 5:44:47 49,811,014k 2,408k +1.58 3.Bc4 Nc6
47/66+ 10:33:07 88,069,881k 2,318k +1.66 3.Nxe5
47/66+ 10:45:10 89,491,653k 2,312k +1.82 3.Nxe5
47/66 10:52:14 90,296,597k 2,307k +1.70 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 Bf5 22.a4 h5 23.Qf4 Re6 24.f3 Bf8 25.Qh4 Bg7 26.Re1 g5 27.Qf2 Rde8 28.Rxe6 Rxe6 29.g3 Bf8 30.Kg2 Bg7
48/59+ 11:25:46 94,786,859k 2,304k +1.77 3.Nxe5
48/69+ 11:37:16 96,645,533k 2,310k +1.85 3.Nxe5
48/69 11:40:33 97,223,958k 2,313k +1.82 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Nc6 8.Nc3 Qe6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nd4 Nxd4 11.Bh5+ g6 12.Re1 0-0-0 13.Rxe6 Bxe6 14.Bf3 Ne7 15.Nb5 Nec6 16.Nxd4 Nxd4 17.c3 Nxf3+ 18.Qxf3 Bg7 19.Be3 a6 20.Bd4 Rhe8 21.b4 h5 22.a4 Bf5 23.Qf4 Re4 24.Qd2 Rde8 25.Be3 Rd8 26.Qb2 g5 27.Qb3 Bg6 28.Rd1 Rxd1+ 29.Qxd1 Re6 30.Qd5 Rd6 31.Qg8+ Rd8 32.Qe6+ Kb8 33.f3 h4 34.Qe7
Can someone, perhaps Louis, provide deeper (depth > 60) analysis of this position? It's not so obvious that 3.Nxe5 is the best move here, although it's definitely the most forceful one.

zullil
Posts: 5008
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by zullil » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:06 am

Karol Majewski wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:22 pm

Can someone, perhaps Louis, provide deeper (depth > 60) analysis of this position? It's not so obvious that 3.Nxe5 is the best move here, although it's definitely the most forceful one.
Here's Cfish-dev with multi-pv = 2. I'll let the search continue. So far, Nxe5 is still preferred.

+1.62 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nf3 d5 5. d3 dxe4 6. dxe4 Qxe4+ 7. Be2 Nc6 8. Nc3 Qe6 9. O-O Bd7 10. Nd4 Nxd4 11. Bh5+ g6 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Rxe6 Bxe6 14. Bf3 Ne7 15. Nb5 Nec6 16. Nxd4 Nxd4 17. Bf4 Bc4 18. Qe1 Nxf3+ 19. gxf3 Bd6 20. Bxd6 Rxd6 21. Rd1 Rxd1 22. Qxd1 Rd8 23. Qe1 b6 24. Kg2 Bd5 25. Qe7 Rd7 26. Qxf6 Rf7 27. Qe5 Bxf3+ 28. Kg3 Kb7 29. Qe6 Rf5 30. Qxf5 gxf5 31. Kxf3 Kc6 32. Kf4 b5 33. Kxf5 Kd5 34. f4 b4 35. Kg5 Ke6 36. f5+ Kf7 37. Kh6 (depth 51, 11:53:03)

+1.50 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. d4 d6 5. O-O Na5 6. Be2 Nc6 7. Be3 g6 8. Bc4 Na5 9. Bb5+ Bd7 10. a4 Ne7 11. Nc3 a6 12. Be2 Bg7 13. dxe5 dxe5 14. b4 Nac6 15. b5 Na5 16. Qb1 O-O 17. b6 Nac6 18. Rd1 cxb6 19. Qb3+ Kh8 20. Bxb6 Qc8 21. Rd6 Bg4 22. Rad1 Qb8 23. R6d2 Qc8 24. Qa3 Rb8 25. h3 Bxf3 26. Bxf3 Nd4 27. Bxd4 exd4 28. Rxd4 f5 29. Qxe7 Qxc3 30. Rd8 Qe5 31. Qxe5 Bxe5 32. Rxf8+ Rxf8 33. exf5 Rxf5 34. Bxb7 (depth 51, 11:53:03)

Karol Majewski
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: analysis of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6

Post by Karol Majewski » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:43 am

zullil wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:06 am
Karol Majewski wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:22 pm

Can someone, perhaps Louis, provide deeper (depth > 60) analysis of this position? It's not so obvious that 3.Nxe5 is the best move here, although it's definitely the most forceful one.
Here's Cfish-dev with multi-pv = 2. I'll let the search continue. So far, Nxe5 is still preferred.

+1.62 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nf3 d5 5. d3 dxe4 6. dxe4 Qxe4+ 7. Be2 Nc6 8. Nc3 Qe6 9. O-O Bd7 10. Nd4 Nxd4 11. Bh5+ g6 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Rxe6 Bxe6 14. Bf3 Ne7 15. Nb5 Nec6 16. Nxd4 Nxd4 17. Bf4 Bc4 18. Qe1 Nxf3+ 19. gxf3 Bd6 20. Bxd6 Rxd6 21. Rd1 Rxd1 22. Qxd1 Rd8 23. Qe1 b6 24. Kg2 Bd5 25. Qe7 Rd7 26. Qxf6 Rf7 27. Qe5 Bxf3+ 28. Kg3 Kb7 29. Qe6 Rf5 30. Qxf5 gxf5 31. Kxf3 Kc6 32. Kf4 b5 33. Kxf5 Kd5 34. f4 b4 35. Kg5 Ke6 36. f5+ Kf7 37. Kh6 (depth 51, 11:53:03)

+1.50 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. d4 d6 5. O-O Na5 6. Be2 Nc6 7. Be3 g6 8. Bc4 Na5 9. Bb5+ Bd7 10. a4 Ne7 11. Nc3 a6 12. Be2 Bg7 13. dxe5 dxe5 14. b4 Nac6 15. b5 Na5 16. Qb1 O-O 17. b6 Nac6 18. Rd1 cxb6 19. Qb3+ Kh8 20. Bxb6 Qc8 21. Rd6 Bg4 22. Rad1 Qb8 23. R6d2 Qc8 24. Qa3 Rb8 25. h3 Bxf3 26. Bxf3 Nd4 27. Bxd4 exd4 28. Rxd4 f5 29. Qxe7 Qxc3 30. Rd8 Qe5 31. Qxe5 Bxe5 32. Rxf8+ Rxf8 33. exf5 Rxf5 34. Bxb7 (depth 51, 11:53:03)
OK, thanks for taking the challenge. +1.62 is still far from refuting this crappy opening. Having ~+2.50 would be close to it.

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