will Leela ever solve this ?

[Spliffjiffer]

[d]8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Ra5, game over

[Uri Blass]

This is an easy test position.

Note that I do not use Leela but I believe that every player with rating of at least 1400(human or engine) should solve it easily.

[tmokonen]

LC0, a 2651 rated engine on CCRL's 40/40 rating list, still does not solve the position in question. It might be easy for you and me, but not so much for Leela.

[CMCanavessi]

[d]8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Ra5, game over

Finds it in 6 seconds:

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Lc0 ID 25 (TEST):
 1/2	00:00,010	 2	200	-1,57	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+
 1/3	00:00,011	 3	272	-0,72	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2
 1/4	00:00,012	 6	500	 0,00	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qg4+
 1/5	00:00,013	 15	1k	-0,07	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qc5 3.Re3+
 1/6	00:00,015	 33	2k	-0,10	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qc5 3.Re3+ Kf5
 1/7	00:00,017	 65	4k	-0,01	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qc5 3.Re3+ Kd5 4.c4+
 1/8	00:00,018	 97	5k	+0,13	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qg4+ 3.Nf3+ Kd6 4.Rd3+ Kc5
 1/9	00:00,020	 148	7k	+0,03	1.cxd4+ Qxd4+ 2.Ke2 Qg4+ 3.Nf3+ Kd6 4.Rd3+ Kc5 5.Ke3
 1/9	00:00,022	 187	9k	+0,68	1.c4 Qc5 2.Ra8 Qb4 3.Nf3+ Kf4 4.Nxd4
 1/10	00:00,026	 282	11k	+0,73	1.c4 Qc5 2.Ra8 Qb4 3.Nf3+ Kf4 4.Nxd4 Qb1
 1/11	00:00,035	 504	14k	+0,38	1.c4 Qg2 2.Ra5+ Kd6 3.Ne4+ Kc7 4.Rf5 Qh3+
 1/12	00:00,076	 2k	21k	+0,16	1.c4 Qg2 2.Ra5+ Kf4 3.c5 Qd5 4.Nb3 Ke5 5.c6 Kd6
 1/13	00:00,099	 2k	23k	+0,01	1.c4 Qg2 2.Ra5+ Kf4 3.c5 Qg6+ 4.Kxd4 Qxc2 5.Nc4 Qe4+ 6.Kc3 Qe1+
 1/13	00:00,111	 3k	24k	+0,20	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+
 1/14	00:00,123	 3k	24k	+0,25	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+
 1/15	00:00,143	 4k	25k	+0,23	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3
 1/16	00:00,178	 5k	27k	+0,22	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+
 1/17	00:00,223	 6k	29k	+0,25	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+ Ke4
 1/19	00:00,396	 13k	32k	+0,25	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qd5 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Ke3 6.Nc4+ Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+ Ke4
 1/20	00:00,776	 28k	36k	+0,30	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kd3 Qf3+ 5.Kd2 Qd5 6.Kc3 Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+ Ke4 9.Nd2+ Ke3 10.Nc4+ Kf4
 2/20	00:00,859	 31k	36k	+0,31	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kd3 Qf3+ 5.Kd2 Qd5 6.Kc3 Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+ Ke4 9.Nd2+ Ke3 10.Nc4+ Kf4
 2/21	00:01,094	 41k	37k	+0,35	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kd3 Qf3+ 5.Kd2 Qd5 6.Kc3 Ke4 7.Nd2+ Ke3 8.Nc4+ Ke4 9.Nd2+ Ke3 10.Nc4+ Kf4
 2/22	00:02,602	 103k	39k	+0,43	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kc3 Ke4 5.Nd2+ Kf4 6.Nb3 Qe1+ 7.Kc4 Qe2+ 8.Kc3 Qe1+ 9.Kb2 Qb4 10.Ra8 Ke4
 2/23	00:04,326	 185k	43k	+0,49	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kc3 Qe1+ 5.Kb3 Qd1 6.Kc3 Qe1+ 7.Kb3 Qb1+ 8.Kc3 Qe1+
 2/29	00:05,777	 274k	47k	+0,49	1.Nc4+ Kf4 2.cxd4 Qf3+ 3.Kd2 Qf2+ 4.Kc3 Qe1+ 5.Kb3 Qd1 6.Kc3 Qe1+ 7.Kb3 Qb1+ 8.Kc3 Qe1+
 2/29	00:06,320	 310k	49k	+20,27	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.c4 Kxb3 8.c5 Kb4 9.c6 Kb5 10.c7 Kc6 11.c8Q+ Kd6 12.Qb8+ Kc6 13.Kc4 Kd7
 2/31	00:07,178	 367k	51k	+20,74	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.c4 Kxb3 8.c5 Kb4 9.c6 Kb5 10.c7 Kc6 11.c8Q+ Kd6 12.Qb8+ Kc6 13.Kc4 Kd7
 2/32	00:07,680	 400k	52k	+20,99	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.c4 Kxb3 8.c5 Kb4 9.c6 Kb5 10.c7 Kc6 11.c8Q+ Kd6 12.Qb8+ Kc6 13.Kc4 Kd7 14.Kd5
 2/32	00:12,684	 735k	58k	+22,38	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.Nd2 Kb5 8.c3 Kc6 9.c4 Kd6 10.c5+ Kc6 11.Nc4 Kc7 12.Kd5 Kd7 13.c6+ Kc7
 2/32	00:17,688	 1.073k	61k	+23,32	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.Na1 Kb5 8.c3 Kc6 9.c4 Kd6 10.Nb3 Kc6 11.c5 Kc7 12.Kd5 Kd7 13.Nd4 Kc7 14.c6 Kc8
 2/33	00:19,591	 1.206k	62k	+23,72	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.Na1 Kb5 8.c3 Kc6 9.c4 Kd6 10.Nb3 Kc6 11.c5 Kc7 12.Kd5 Kd7 13.Nd4 Kc7 14.c6 Kc8 15.Nb5
 2/34	00:19,828	 1.223k	62k	+23,77	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.Na1 Kb5 8.c3 Kc6 9.c4 Kd6 10.Nb3 Kc6 11.c5 Kc7 12.Kd5 Kd7 13.Nd4 Kc7 14.c6 Kc8 15.Nb5
 2/34	00:22,167	 1.382k	62k	+24,16	1.Ra5 Qxa5 2.Nc4+ Kd5 3.Nxa5 dxc3 4.Kxc3 Kc5 5.Nb3+ Kb5 6.Kd4 Kb4 7.Na1 Kb5 8.Kd5 Kb4 9.c4 Kc3 10.c5 Kb4 11.c6 Kb5 12.c7 Kb6 13.c8Q Ka7 14.Nc2 Kb6 15.Qb8+ Ka6 16.Kc5 Ka5 17.Qa7+

[Paloma]

[peter]

[d]8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Ra5, game over

Finds it in 6 seconds:

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Lc0 ID 25 (TEST):

Is this ID 25 (TEST) the one to be downloaded actually?

[CMCanavessi]

[d]8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Ra5, game over

Finds it in 6 seconds:

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Lc0 ID 25 (TEST):

Is this ID25(TEST) the one to be downloaded actually?

Yes, you can find all test networks here: http://testserver.lczero.org/networks

[peter]

Yes, you can find all test networks here: http://testserver.lczero.org/networks

Thanks, but is it the best eng-eng playing one too? I mean do you recommend it to be used for game playing and computer- Elo- rating?

Or to ask the other way round, does the best computer- Elo- rated network- version solve the position too?

[Uri Blass]

Finds it in 6 seconds:

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/8/8/3qk3/3p4/R1PK4/2PN4/8 w - - 0 1

Lc0 ID 25 (TEST):

Is this ID25(TEST) the one to be downloaded actually?

Yes, you can find all test networks here: http://testserver.lczero.org/networks

I wonder how it got rating lower than random play that is 0 at some stage near 1,000,000 games.
Even if it start from scratch because of bugs then I expect at least 0 elo all the time.

http://testserver.lczero.org/

[crem]

I wonder how it got rating lower than random play that is 0 at some stage near 1,000,000 games.
Even if it start from scratch because of bugs then I expect at least 0 elo all the time.

http://testserver.lczero.org/

The first network (id1) is not random, it's network trained from random games, it already had some knowledge
(like "if you have queen, you win more often"), and its "real" Elo rating is about 600.

Totally random play is about -2000 Elo rating.

But even with random network it would be still not -2000 but rather -1000 or so because of MCTS (it would notice checkmates in 1-2 moves).