Diep 2.0

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diep
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Re: Diep 2.0

Post by diep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:55 pm

Werner wrote:Hi,
I made a match inside Arena 3.5.1 installed as wb engine with comandline parameter winboard. The match was against Zeus 1.27 (2052), 40 moves in 3 minutes, ponder off:

Diep 2.0 - Zeus 1.27 : 10,0/20 8-8-4 (1010101=11=1==010000)
There is a little problem: Diep is pondering and I am not able to stop this behavior (permanent_brain false does not help).
diep is not legal to use for you.

Of course pondering cannot be turned off, who wants to waste system time?

Testers are such idiots that already start this century i figured out that some of the testers managed to run it without permanent brain on under conditions it should've been turned on. Also it's possible some cheat software back then managed to turn of permanent brain in opponent engines and kept it turned on in their own engine giving them a major edge.

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Werner
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Re: Diep 2.0

Post by Werner » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:01 pm

carldaman wrote:
Werner wrote:Hi,
I made a match inside Arena 3.5.1 installed as wb engine with comandline parameter winboard. The match was against Zeus 1.27 (2052), 40 moves in 3 minutes, ponder off:

Diep 2.0 - Zeus 1.27 : 10,0/20 8-8-4 (1010101=11=1==010000)
There is a little problem: Diep is pondering and I am not able to stop this behavior (permanent_brain false does not help).
Hi Werner,

What OS are you running? Diep 2.0 does not run at all in Arena, although it can be installed. I used winboard as command line parameter and Winboard (old) as protocol.

It can't be installed into Winboard GUI, since it gives an error.

Thanks,
CL
Hi CL
I use Windows 10 64bit, Arena 3.5.1; The engine is installed as normal wb engine, not old wb and I have a link to the .ini file.
Commandline Parameter is "winboard" without the marks.

And of Course - I will not test the engine after the message from author.
Werner

carldaman
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Diep 2.0

Post by carldaman » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:05 pm

Werner wrote:
carldaman wrote:
Werner wrote:Hi,
I made a match inside Arena 3.5.1 installed as wb engine with comandline parameter winboard. The match was against Zeus 1.27 (2052), 40 moves in 3 minutes, ponder off:

Diep 2.0 - Zeus 1.27 : 10,0/20 8-8-4 (1010101=11=1==010000)
There is a little problem: Diep is pondering and I am not able to stop this behavior (permanent_brain false does not help).
Hi Werner,

What OS are you running? Diep 2.0 does not run at all in Arena, although it can be installed. I used winboard as command line parameter and Winboard (old) as protocol.

It can't be installed into Winboard GUI, since it gives an error.

Thanks,
CL
Hi CL
I use Windows 10 64bit, Arena 3.5.1; The engine is installed as normal wb engine, not old wb and I have a link to the .ini file.
Commandline Parameter is "winboard" without the marks.

And of Course - I will not test the engine after the message from author.
Thanks, Werner. Too bad re: testing, maybe eventually Vincent might relent.

Adam Hair
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Re: Diep 2.0

Post by Adam Hair » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:44 pm

carldaman wrote:
Werner wrote:
carldaman wrote:
Werner wrote:Hi,
I made a match inside Arena 3.5.1 installed as wb engine with comandline parameter winboard. The match was against Zeus 1.27 (2052), 40 moves in 3 minutes, ponder off:

Diep 2.0 - Zeus 1.27 : 10,0/20 8-8-4 (1010101=11=1==010000)
There is a little problem: Diep is pondering and I am not able to stop this behavior (permanent_brain false does not help).
Hi Werner,

What OS are you running? Diep 2.0 does not run at all in Arena, although it can be installed. I used winboard as command line parameter and Winboard (old) as protocol.

It can't be installed into Winboard GUI, since it gives an error.

Thanks,
CL
Hi CL
I use Windows 10 64bit, Arena 3.5.1; The engine is installed as normal wb engine, not old wb and I have a link to the .ini file.
Commandline Parameter is "winboard" without the marks.

And of Course - I will not test the engine after the message from author.
Thanks, Werner. Too bad re: testing, maybe eventually Vincent might relent.
I can think of more likely events, such as pigs flying :lol:

BrendanJNorman
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Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: Diep 2.0

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am

Guenther wrote: Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep? And would Vincent gain anything in court, assuming an initial cease and desist notice was ignored? This is debatable at least, which is why most of you guys steal each others ideas/code without a care in the world.

Which brings me to my next point...
Guenther wrote:Moreover do you think moderation removed the link (red text!) just out of fun?
No need to request more answers from me, I have better things to do.
In case of an urgent need for more talk about the issue, there are institutions who care.
It's a moral issue, not legal.

And the download was removed by me long before moderation came along, and I stated CLEARLY that I'd removed it too.

Moderation removed the now invalid link to do as they often do on this site...

To make a public show of virtue, authority and say:

"we are very powerful, create/enforce the rules strictly (unless Terry is bullying people), and even put RED lines through expired links to do so!"

That's right. It was an expired link, and making a big deal and changing font color to red and all this nonsense, was just virtue-signalling (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... Signalling)

A lot of virtue-signalling goes on on this forum, whilst the hypocritical party doing so then hops over to a place (whose name is immortal in computer chess circles :wink: ) to pick flowers.

Nevermind though, plenty of good engines already and Rodent/ProDeo is so tweakable that you can essentially create many more.

BrendanJNorman
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Re: Diep 2.0

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:03 am

diep wrote:
Diep development stopped in december 2012, though if you'd fix just the bugs in search, some are so stupid...

Yet it would be very fulltime work to test all those bugs out.
diep wrote:
Testers are such idiots...
Hi Vincent,

Could you share what it was that made you so bitter?

You've been blessed with a decent mind and some clear talents, but it seems that this has only served to make you look at the world with condescension.

How did you find a thread talking about Diep (within hours) if you despise the people who admire your work, have no interest in it, and you're so busy with other pursuits?

I have given up hobbies in the past (for which I was also infamous) and you'd never find me lurking on a related forum nowadays.

Yet, I do not show hostility to those who still enjoy it (or forbid users of my "art" from doing so all these years later).

I'm sure you have your reasons though.

syzygy
Posts: 5000
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: Diep 2.0

Post by syzygy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:48 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:
Guenther wrote:Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.
Of course it is.
Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep?
Obviously it does. It will exist until January 1 after the 70th anniversary of Vincent's death. And I am happy to see that he is alive and well.
Moderation removed the now invalid link to do as they often do on this site...

To make a public show of virtue, authority and say:

"we are very powerful, create/enforce the rules strictly (unless Terry is bullying people), and even put RED lines through expired links to do so!"
Yes, you should have been banned instead.

BrendanJNorman
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: Diep 2.0

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 am

syzygy wrote:
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Guenther wrote:Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.
Of course it is.
In that case, you should have no trouble citing a past example where a copyright infringement was litigated over a 15 year old, non-available chess engine - especially as an I.P lawyer yourself (I'll be waiting...)

Unless you are mentally retarded, you are fully aware that NUMEROUS sites exist around the web (that I have seen dozens of this site's members also at) that contain CURRENTLY sold commercial engines to be "shared".

Have the owners of Houdini, Komodo etc taken ANYONE to court over it?

Or over stolen code? Never.

Things become legal, when they become legal...if you get my drift.

Until now, there has been no such precedent set in the nerdy hobby of ours.
syzygy wrote:
Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep?
Obviously it does. It will exist until January 1 after the 70th anniversary of Vincent's death. And I am happy to see that he is alive and well.
How would you suppose it'd be enforced over the net for a chess engine like Diep?

Assuming it appeared on everyone's favorite chess engine pirate site, would their servers be DDOSed and the owner's home rushed by the FBI?

I'm betting nothing at all would happen, besides some bickering online like this.

syzygy wrote: Yes, you should have been banned instead.
Go ahead, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Unlike some of you guys, I don't derive my sense of significance from virtue-signalling on a computer chess forum. I live in the real world.

Don't get me confused, I respect the author's wishes, and this is why I removed the engine from my hosting site (and my computer), but the back-slapping and virtue-signalling I see here is ridiculous.

As well as the hypocrisy coming from those who themselves steal engines and/or code on a regular basis.

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Ovyron
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Re: Diep 2.0

Post by Ovyron » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:06 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep? And would Vincent gain anything in court, assuming an initial cease and desist notice was ignored?
Exactly! The judge would laugh and fine Vincent for making the court waste time.

The main thing is that Vincent can't sue for damages because he's not selling Diep!

You might have known about ROM sites, that have old video games available in a format that can be played in "Emulators", that allow people to play them in a convenient manner in their computers.

Well, it turns out some ROMs are actually hard to find, as those sites have actually removed them from download, because they've been contacted by Nintendo and such, because those games hosted there are potentially hurting Nintendo's sales, because they're currently selling them in their Virtual Console, Nintendo/Snes Mini, and such.

But those sites are still full of ROMs, most owned by Nintendo, why does Nintendo doesn't care about them? Why isn't Nintendo protecting their copyright? They could easily demand all their games to be taken down.

Well, they're not selling those games anymore, they're abandonware, and as such, Nintendo knows that if they tried to sue those sites for hosting their ROMs "illegally" (without permission), they would lose, because no damage is being done.

In fact, it's free promotion, I've actually read anecdotes about people buying Nintendo's games on the latest consoles because they played a ROM (without owning the game) and they wanted to continue the experience in the latest sequels. Nintendo has won money thanks to ROMs (heh, at one point they directly benefitted; there was a bad rip of a ROM from some game that had bugs in it that didn't happen in the original game. When they released that game in their virtual console, it had the ROM's bug! So instead of bothering to rip the thing from the original source, they just downloaded a free ROM and re-sold it.)

Another example is the Yamaha Softsynthesizer S-YXG50. They stopped selling it, and it became abandonware. Now you can download either the driver version (WinXP) or the VSTi version (VSTHost), and it makes Midi music sound awesome, and Yamaha isn't going after the sites that host the things.

What makes Nintendo or Yamaha different than Vincent? That he doesn't know he would lose the case, unless he put Diep for sale again.

In any case, I'm glad to see people deleting the engine from their hosts, I say, let them bury it, hopefully, the less people know about Diep, the more chance of an actually deserving engine being used.

syzygy
Posts: 5000
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: Diep 2.0

Post by syzygy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:42 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:Have the owners of Houdini, Komodo etc taken ANYONE to court over it?
Oh my...

You believe that something illegal becomes legal when people go unpunished.
You believe that valid copyrights somehow cease to exist when they are being violated.

Believe what you want, but that does not make it true.

But I do hope that the moderators here take action to stop the propagation of your lies on this senstivie topic.

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