Definitely not Mate in 14

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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Definitely not Mate in 14

Post by Dann Corbit »

One more iteration, just for completeness. Since the first few nodes are agreed upon by all solutions, the last bit is superfluous.

Code: Select all

8/5Pk1/8/8/1P3p2/3b4/6rp/4K3 b - - acn 2; acs 0; bm h1=Q# h1=R#; ce 32766; dm 1; pv h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/4P3/8/1P3p2/3b4/6rp/4K3 w - - acn 20; acs 0; ce -32765; pv exf7 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/4P3/8/1P3p2/3b3p/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 71; acs 0; bm h2; ce 32764; dm 2; pv h2 e7 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/8/4P3/1P3p2/3b3p/6r1/4K3 w - - acn 81; acs 0; ce -32763; pv e6 h2 e7 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/8/4P3/1P3p1p/3b4/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 1386; acs 0; bm h3; ce 32762; dm 3; pv h3 e6 h2 e7 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/8/8/1P2Pp1p/3b4/6r1/4K3 w - - acn 427; acs 0; ce -32761; pv e5 h3 e6 h2 e7 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/8/4p3/1P2PP1p/3b4/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 14659; acs 0; bm Kh6 Kh7 Kh8 exf4 h3; ce 32760; dm 4; pv h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/8/4p3/1P2P2p/3b1P2/6r1/4K3 w - - acn 443; acs 0; ce -32759;
8/5pk1/8/1b2p3/1P2P2p/3R1P2/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 26350; acs 0; bm Bxd3; ce 32758; dm 5; pv Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/3R4/1b2p3/1P2P2p/3n1P2/6r1/4K3 w - - acn 598472; acs 1; ce -32757; pv Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/3R4/1b2p3/1P2Pn1p/5P2/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 1001721; acs 1; bm Bd3 Nd3+; ce 32756; dm 6; pv Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/3R4/1b2p3/4Pn1p/1P3P2/6r1/4K3 w - - acn 5594169; acs 9; ce -32755;
8/5pk1/3R4/1b2p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/4K3 b - - acn 7780479; acs 5; bm h4; ce 32754; dm 7; pv h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/5pk1/3R4/1b2p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 w - - acn 20848; acs 0; ce -32753; pv Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/3b1pk1/3R4/4p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 b - - acn 30586275; acs 24; bm Bb5+ h4; ce 32752; dm 8; pv Bb5+ Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/3b1pk1/R7/4p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 w - - acn 14324754; acs 14; ce -32751;
8/3b1p2/R4k2/4p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 b - - acn 82032108; acs 64; bm Kg7; ce 32750; dm 9; pv Kg7 Rd6 Bb5+ Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/3b1p2/5k2/R3p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 w - - acn 169757133; acs 145; ce -32749; pv Ra6+ Kg7 Rd6 Bb5+ Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/3bkp2/8/R3p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/6r1/5K2 b - - acn 839103153; acs 777; bm Kf6; ce 32748; dm 10; pv Kf6 Ra6+ Kg7 Rd6 Bb5+ Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
8/3bkp2/8/R3p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/5Kr1/8 w - - acn 22723456; acs 22; ce -32747;
6r1/3bkp2/8/R3p2p/4Pn2/1P3P2/5K2/8 b - - acn 1467317456; acs 6698; bm Rg2+; ce 32746; dm 11; fmvn 2; hmvc 2; pv Rg2+ Kf1 Kf6 Ra6+ Kg7 Rd6 Bb5+ Ke1 h4 b4 Nd3+ Rxd3 Bxd3 f4 h3 f5 h2 f6+ Kh7 b5 h1=Q#;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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F.Huber
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Definitely not Mate in 14

Post by F.Huber »

Dann Corbit wrote:Definitely a mate in 13. Chest output is pretty well a proof that there is not shorter solution.
No Dann, if you use SearchMode=AutoTurbo, then it's NOT a proof!

I know that you're using ChestUCI since a long time, so I wonder why you still don't understand how it works.

In AutoTurbo mode a found mate is only the shortest mate under the special parameters that ChestUCI has used (or tried) -
there might be still a shorter mate, if any of these special conditions would be less restrictive.

So to be sure to find the shortest possible mate, there are 2 possible ways:
1) either use SearchMode=Normal (this will always find the shortest mate, but of course may take a long time for longer mates),

2) or use AutoTurbo mode, but then you have to do the following:
if ChestUCI finds a mate in N (in AutoTurbo mode), then set SearchDepth=N-1 and let ChestUCI try it again (with AutoTurbo) -
a) if it finds NO mate in N-1 (or less), THEN the mate in N is indeed proved (to be the shortest one),
b) if it DOES find a mate in M<=N-1, then repeat this step by decreasing the SearchDepth again to M-1.

Franz
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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Definitely not Mate in 14

Post by kgburcham »

[D] 3r4/3bkp2/8/R3p2p/4Pn2/1P3PK1/8/8 b - -


Engine: Houdini 6.01 Pro x64-pext (8192 MB)
by Robert Houdart
8 threads used

27/59 0:06 -85.16 1...Kf6 2.Ra2 Rg8+ 3.Kh2 Rb8 4.Rb2 Be6 5.b4 Bc4 6.Kh1 Be2 7.Rc2 Rxb4 8.Kg1 Rb3 9.Rc7 Rxf3 10.Rc6+ Kg5 11.Rc1 Rg3+ 12.Kf2 Rg2+ 13.Ke3 Bg4 14.Rc2 Re2+ (106.100.235) 17551 TB:83.347
27/59 0:07 -M15 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Ke1 Be6 7.Rh6+ Kg7 8.Rh4 h2 9.Rxh2 Rxh2 10.Kf1 Bxb3 11.Kg1 Rb2 12.Kf1 Rg2 13.Ke1 Bc4 14.Kd1 Nd3 (142.722.141) 18031 TB:142.193
28/59 0:08 -M14 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh4 Be6 7.Rh7 Bxb3 8.Rh6+ Kg7 9.Rxh3 Bc4+ 10.Ke1 Re2+ 11.Kf1 Nxh3 12.f4 exf4 13.e5 f3 14.e6 Rxe6+ (150.398.637) 17947 TB:162.250
29/59 0:08 -M14 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh4 Be6 7.Rh7 Bxb3 8.Rh6+ Kg7 9.Rxh3 Bc4+ 10.Ke1 Re2+ 11.Kf1 Nxh3 12.f4 exf4 13.e5 f3 14.e6 Rxe6+ (152.331.245) 17889 TB:170.097
30/59 0:08 -M14 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh4 Be6 7.Rh7 Bxb3 8.Rh6+ Kg7 9.Rxh3 Bc4+ 10.Ke1 Re2+ 11.Kf1 Nxh3 12.f4 exf4 13.e5 f3 14.e6 Rxe6+ (155.051.025) 17774 TB:182.075
31/59 0:08 -M14 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh4 Be6 7.Rh7 Bxb3 8.Rh6+ Kg7 9.Rxh3 Bc4+ 10.Ke1 Re2+ 11.Kf1 Nxh3 12.f4 exf4 13.e5 f3 14.e6 Rxe6+ (158.429.865) 17634 TB:194.937
32/59 0:09 -M13 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh4 Kg5 7.Rh8 h2 8.Rg8+ Kh4 9.Rh8+ Kg3 10.Ke1 Bh3 11.Rg8+ Ng6 12.Rxg6+ fxg6 13.Kf1 h1Q+ (167.243.033) 17632 TB:218.632
33/59 0:09 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 Kg7 5.Ra5 h4 6.Rxe5 h3 7.Rg5+ Rxg5 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Kd4 Qxf3 11.e5 Ne6+ 12.Kc4 Rg4+ (175.703.764) 17767 TB:234.625
34/59 0:10 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 Kg7 5.Ra5 h4 6.Rxe5 h3 7.Rg5+ Rxg5 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Kd4 Qxf3 11.e5 Ne6+ 12.Kc4 Rg4+ (181.344.292) 17787 TB:249.200
35/59 0:10 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 Kg7 5.Ra5 h4 6.Rxe5 h3 7.Rg5+ Rxg5 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Kd4 Qxf3 11.e5 Ne6+ 12.Kc4 Rg4+ (181.889.068) 17792 TB:251.017
36/59 0:10 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ra8 Kg7 5.Ra5 h4 6.Rxe5 h3 7.Rg5+ Rxg5 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Kd4 Qxf3 11.e5 Ne6+ 12.Kc4 Rg4+ (184.323.609) 17778 TB:257.519




Engine: Houdini 6.01 Pro x64-pext (8192 MB)
by Robert Houdart
8 threads used
Nalimov EGTB not available
GUI: Tablebases with 0 pieces found! [Cache: 999 MB + internal 0.00 MB]


29/57 0:03 -93.24 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 f6 3.Ke1 h4 4.Kd2 h3 5.Ra1 Rg2+ 6.Kc3 h2 7.Rh1 Ne2+ 8.Kc4 Ng3 9.Rxh2 Rxh2 10.Kd3 Rf2 11.f4 Rf3+ 12.Kd2 Nxe4+ 13.Kd1 exf4 14.Kc2 Rxb3 (73.426.833) 24090
30/57 0:04 -M23 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 f6 3.Ke1 h4 4.Kd2 Rg2+ 5.Kc3 h3 6.Ra1 h2 7.Rh1 Ne2+ 8.Kb4 Ng3 9.Rxh2 Rxh2 10.Kc4 Rc2+ 11.Kd3 Rf2 12.Ke3 Rb2 13.b4 Re2+ 14.Kd3 Bb5+ (100.949.932) 24168
30/57 0:08 -M15 1...f6 2.Kh2 Rg8 3.Ra2 h4 4.Kh1 h3 5.Rh2 Bb5 6.b4 Rg3 7.Rd2 Rg2 8.Rxg2 hxg2+ 9.Kg1 Bf1 10.Kf2 Nd3+ 11.Kg1 Ne1 12.Kf2 Nxf3 13.Kxf3 g1Q 14.b5 Qg2+ (201.299.510) 25134
31/57 0:08 -M15 1...f6 2.Kh2 Rg8 3.Ra2 h4 4.Kh1 h3 5.Rh2 Bb5 6.b4 Rg3 7.Rd2 Rg2 8.Rxg2 hxg2+ 9.Kg1 Bf1 10.Kf2 Nd3+ 11.Kg1 Ne1 12.Kf2 Nxf3 13.Kxf3 g1Q 14.b5 Qg2+ (207.812.342) 25204
31/57 0:09 -M13 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 f6 3.Ke1 Rg2 4.Ra8 h4 5.Rh8 h3 6.Rh7+ Kd6 7.Rh6 h2 8.Rxh2 Rxh2 9.Kf1 Bb5+ 10.Kg1 Rg2+ 11.Kh1 Bf1 12.b4 Nd3 13.b5 Nf2+ (229.971.053) 25316

snip

53/57 1:09 -M13 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 f6 3.Kf1 h4 4.Ra7 h3 5.Ra2 Bb5+ 6.Ke1 Rg1+ 7.Kd2 Rg2+ 8.Kc3 Rxa2 9.Kb4 h2 10.Kc5 h1Q 11.Kxb5 Qc1 12.Kb6 Kd6 13.b4 Qc6+ (1.954.403.656) 27930
54/57 1:29 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ke1 h4 5.Ra6+ Be6 6.Rd6 h3 7.Rd2 Rg1+ 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Rd5 Bxd5 11.exd5 Rg2 12.d6 Re2+ (2.499.849.878) 27905
55/57 1:29 -M12 1...Rg8+ 2.Kf2 Rg2+ 3.Kf1 Kf6 4.Ke1 h4 5.Ra6+ Be6 6.Rd6 h3 7.Rd2 Rg1+ 8.Kf2 h2 9.Ke3 h1Q 10.Rd5 Bxd5 11.exd5 Rg2 12.d6 Re2+ (2.500.765.435) 27904
no chess program was born totally from one mind. all chess programs have many ideas from many minds.
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Definitely not Mate in 14

Post by Dann Corbit »

F.Huber wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:Definitely a mate in 13. Chest output is pretty well a proof that there is not shorter solution.
No Dann, if you use SearchMode=AutoTurbo, then it's NOT a proof!

I know that you're using ChestUCI since a long time, so I wonder why you still don't understand how it works.
I guess the only one I really understand is Chest319 command line because I have the source for it.

I never remember what the commands in ChestUCI mean.

It seems to me that AutoTurbo does not use the database.
Auto does use the database.

So I usually use AutoTurbo only for positions not in the database and Auto for positions in the database.

Of all the positions in the Chest database, I have 75 that I have not got the solution for yet. I am running those this weekend.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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