We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic rules

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Leto
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by Leto » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:02 am

yolin wrote:Gian-Carlo's project is generating a lot of interest:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Also this adaptation to chess just got posted:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/155
https://github.com/Zeta36/chess-alpha-zero
Maybe a future TCEC champion has just been born.

corres
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by corres » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:18 pm

[quote="corres"]
....
But the world is more complicated and it can not be transcribed with formal logic and two bits mathematics.
....

[/quote]

A correction:
Instead of "two bits mathematics" the correct expression is
"binary mathematics"
Sorry!

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reflectionofpower
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by reflectionofpower » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:20 pm

Dirt wrote:
reflectionofpower wrote:
Laskos wrote:To reply to the thread title:
We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic rules

Sure, humans are doomed, at Chess and Go, and many other things. Observing carefully my cats, and remembering my dogs from when I was a teenager, I think their doom is so far in the future, and even asymptotically to infinity prone to a logical definition, that I am not that concerned thinking of this "doom".

We were doomed since we have learned that tertium non datur. Cats and dogs hardly follow any of these human arrogances, which prove to be no more than imitations of an ideal diode.
Nicely said.
Really? What did he just say? Something about dogs and cats and rectifiers...I didn't understand any of it.
He basically said,"It is what it is"
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

Lonnie

corres
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by corres » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:37 pm

[quote="jdart"]

The problem is search speed.
You can have a Stockfish-equivalent eval implemented in a NN, but the eval speed will not be the same (likely worse).
--Jon

[/quote]

Another problem is that the human logic for a chess engine is unproductive. Because of this every trial to make a very strong chess engine basing on human chess logic only is a failure. The question is what a logic is good for chess engines. The answer to this question the programmers of chess engines can reply only and not the super computer of Google.

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MikeB
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by MikeB » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:49 pm

Leto wrote:
yolin wrote:Gian-Carlo's project is generating a lot of interest:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Also this adaptation to chess just got posted:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/155
https://github.com/Zeta36/chess-alpha-zero
Maybe a future TCEC champion has just been born.
Amazing stuff - thanks for the links.

duncan
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by duncan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:35 am

yolin wrote:Gian-Carlo's project is generating a lot of interest:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Also this adaptation to chess just got posted:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/155
https://github.com/Zeta36/chess-alpha-zero
300,000 games gets 1500 points.
does this mean double the games it may be world champion with 3,000 points?

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Luis Babboni
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by Luis Babboni » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:44 am

Leo wrote:
duncan wrote:
Leo wrote:Has AI done something other than play games? Something that would help humanity. Maybe cheat death for some of the worlds billionaires.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41651839

US scientists are using artificial intelligence to predict whether breast lesions identified from a biopsy will turn out to cancerous.

The machine learning system has been tested on 335 high-risk lesions, and correctly diagnosed 97% as malignant.

It reduced the number of unnecessary surgeries by more than 30%, the scientists said.
I am glad to hear that. Those are the kind of things that matter, not what machine beat what human in some game, and then brag about how great they are.
Many important improvements for life quality used to came from war.... that coming now, some at least, from games, is a nice improvement! :D

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Laskos
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by Laskos » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:50 am

duncan wrote:
yolin wrote:Gian-Carlo's project is generating a lot of interest:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Also this adaptation to chess just got posted:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/155
https://github.com/Zeta36/chess-alpha-zero
300,000 games gets 1500 points.
does this mean double the games it may be world champion with 3,000 points?
Not at all. I doubt all this project will catch in foreseeable future top conventional engines.

duncan
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by duncan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 pm

Laskos wrote:
duncan wrote:
yolin wrote:Gian-Carlo's project is generating a lot of interest:
http://zero.sjeng.org/

Also this adaptation to chess just got posted:
https://github.com/gcp/leela-zero/issues/155
https://github.com/Zeta36/chess-alpha-zero
300,000 games gets 1500 points.
does this mean double the games it may be world champion with 3,000 points?
Not at all. I doubt all this project will catch in foreseeable future top conventional engines.
is it doing anything significant. have other ai's taken far more than
300,000 games to get to 1500 points.?

Look
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Re: We are doomed - AlphaGo Zero, learning only from basic r

Post by Look » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:41 pm

Your sig contains
Emily Dickerson
Actually spelled :

Emily Dickinson.

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