Houdini 6 has been released

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
voyagerOne
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by voyagerOne » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:29 pm

Congratulations Robert!

VoyagerOne

CheckersGuy
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by CheckersGuy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:32 pm

Lion wrote:Well, still a little unclear to me if this is N°1....

ASMFishW is about 30% faster than Stockfish so I am not sure how 30% faster translates into ELO.

Would that cover the about 30 ELO advantage Houdini 6 may have over latest Stockfish developments?

rgds
probably no :lol:

User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4195
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Groningen

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by Eelco de Groot » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:49 pm

Lion wrote:Well, still a little unclear to me if this is N°1....

ASMFishW is about 30% faster than Stockfish so I am not sure how 30% faster translates into ELO.

Would that cover the about 30 ELO advantage Houdini 6 may have over latest Stockfish developments?

rgds
Run from Ingo on Inwobe.de practically complete:
H6

Houdini 6 - Komodo 11.2.2 (3315) 123.5 - 96.5 56.14% Perf=3357
Houdini 6 - Stockfish 8 (3299) 120.0 - 100.0 54.55% Perf=3330
Houdini 6 - Shredder 13 (3120) 171.5 - 48.5 77.95% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Fizbo 1.9 (3070) 179.5 - 40.5 81.59% Perf=3328
Houdini 6 - Ginkgo 2.0 (3062) 185.0 - 35.0 84.09% Perf=3351
Houdini 6 - Gull 3 (3056) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3363
Houdini 6 - Booot 6.2 (3028) 192.5 - 27.5 87.50% Perf=3366
Houdini 6 - Jonny 8.00 (3025) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3332
Houdini 6 - Andscacs 0.90 (3023) 197.0 - 23.0 89.55% Perf=3396
Houdini 6 - Equinox 3.30 (3006) 194.5 - 24.5 88.81% Perf=3365
Houdini 6 - Fritz 15 (2995) 198.0 - 22.0 90.00% Perf=3376
Houdini 6 - Chiron 4 (2994) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3371
Houdini 6 - Critter 1.6a (2993) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3370
Houdini 6 - Nirvanachess 2.4 (2967) 196.0 - 23.0 89.50% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Hannibal 1.7 (2960) 188.5 - 31.5 85.68% Perf=3270
2717.0 - 581.0 82.38% Perf=3327


3298 out of 3300 games played
H6 scores 54.55% against Stockfish 8. Multiply 4.55 * 7 Elopoints That is probly close to what Stockfish Dev would score (barring statistical uncertainty margins of course). The difference is in the contempt.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

User avatar
kranium
Posts: 1824
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by kranium » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:03 pm

Eelco de Groot wrote:
Lion wrote:Well, still a little unclear to me if this is N°1....

ASMFishW is about 30% faster than Stockfish so I am not sure how 30% faster translates into ELO.

Would that cover the about 30 ELO advantage Houdini 6 may have over latest Stockfish developments?

rgds
Run from Ingo on Inwobe.de practically complete:
H6

Houdini 6 - Komodo 11.2.2 (3315) 123.5 - 96.5 56.14% Perf=3357
Houdini 6 - Stockfish 8 (3299) 120.0 - 100.0 54.55% Perf=3330
Houdini 6 - Shredder 13 (3120) 171.5 - 48.5 77.95% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Fizbo 1.9 (3070) 179.5 - 40.5 81.59% Perf=3328
Houdini 6 - Ginkgo 2.0 (3062) 185.0 - 35.0 84.09% Perf=3351
Houdini 6 - Gull 3 (3056) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3363
Houdini 6 - Booot 6.2 (3028) 192.5 - 27.5 87.50% Perf=3366
Houdini 6 - Jonny 8.00 (3025) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3332
Houdini 6 - Andscacs 0.90 (3023) 197.0 - 23.0 89.55% Perf=3396
Houdini 6 - Equinox 3.30 (3006) 194.5 - 24.5 88.81% Perf=3365
Houdini 6 - Fritz 15 (2995) 198.0 - 22.0 90.00% Perf=3376
Houdini 6 - Chiron 4 (2994) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3371
Houdini 6 - Critter 1.6a (2993) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3370
Houdini 6 - Nirvanachess 2.4 (2967) 196.0 - 23.0 89.50% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Hannibal 1.7 (2960) 188.5 - 31.5 85.68% Perf=3270
2717.0 - 581.0 82.38% Perf=3327


3298 out of 3300 games played
H6 scores 54.55% against Stockfish 8. Multiply 4.55 * 7 Elopoints That is probly close to what Stockfish Dev would score (barring statistical uncertainty margins of course). The difference is in the contempt.
Thx Eelco...

54.55 % is +32.00 Elo
4.55 * 7 is +31.85 Elo

Too bad the PGN is not available...much more difficult to get stats, error margins, etc. without running it in Ordo.

Can you explain your 4.55 * 7 estimate for SF dev?

Much appreciated!
Last edited by kranium on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4195
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Groningen

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by Eelco de Groot » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm

Lion wrote:Well, still a little unclear to me if this is N°1....

ASMFishW is about 30% faster than Stockfish so I am not sure how 30% faster translates into ELO.

Would that cover the about 30 ELO advantage Houdini 6 may have over latest Stockfish developments?

rgds
Run from Ingo on Inwobe.de practically complete:
H6

Houdini 6 - Komodo 11.2.2 (3315) 123.5 - 96.5 56.14% Perf=3357
Houdini 6 - Stockfish 8 (3299) 120.0 - 100.0 54.55% Perf=3330
Houdini 6 - Shredder 13 (3120) 171.5 - 48.5 77.95% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Fizbo 1.9 (3070) 179.5 - 40.5 81.59% Perf=3328
Houdini 6 - Ginkgo 2.0 (3062) 185.0 - 35.0 84.09% Perf=3351
Houdini 6 - Gull 3 (3056) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3363
Houdini 6 - Booot 6.2 (3028) 192.5 - 27.5 87.50% Perf=3366
Houdini 6 - Jonny 8.00 (3025) 188.0 - 32.0 85.45% Perf=3332
Houdini 6 - Andscacs 0.90 (3023) 197.0 - 23.0 89.55% Perf=3396
Houdini 6 - Equinox 3.30 (3006) 194.5 - 24.5 88.81% Perf=3365
Houdini 6 - Fritz 15 (2995) 198.0 - 22.0 90.00% Perf=3376
Houdini 6 - Chiron 4 (2994) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3371
Houdini 6 - Critter 1.6a (2993) 197.5 - 22.5 89.77% Perf=3370
Houdini 6 - Nirvanachess 2.4 (2967) 196.0 - 23.0 89.50% Perf=3339
Houdini 6 - Hannibal 1.7 (2960) 188.5 - 31.5 85.68% Perf=3270
2717.0 - 581.0 82.38% Perf=3327


3298 out of 3300 games played
H6 scores 54.55% against Stockfish 8. Multiply 4.55 * 7 Elopoints That is probly close to what Stockfish Dev would score (barring statistical uncertainty margins of course. Which are huge!). The difference is in the contempt, so H6 overall result could be better. No offense, and of course there is no Stockfish Dev in the list so that is moot. A match with contempt reduced would be interesting for sure.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2522
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by Nordlandia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Improvement ideas Houdini.

1

Penalty for multiple queens. Viktor Korchnoi discovered this phenomena.

In short: neither queen does anything that the other one can't do -> thus redundant.

"Elephantiasis Effect". In short, it comes to this:
Stronger pieces lose value in the presence of lower-valued pieces of the opponent, because the latter can easily interdict their access to part of the board. By acting on the assumption that a piece is better, you have to handle it such that it is protected from exchange with the inferior piece, which makes it less usefull.

2

Fix crash when probing nalimov format. Houdini tend to crash when probing DTM format. I find Nalimov very useful when using Chessbase's Let's Check Database -> PV get cached with exact distance to mate over syzygy's 138.XXX

User avatar
kranium
Posts: 1824
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by kranium » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:16 pm

Lion wrote: Would that cover the about 30 ELO advantage Houdini 6 may have over latest Stockfish developments?
Where did you see that?

User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4195
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Groningen

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by Eelco de Groot » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:16 pm

Hi Norman, It is a simple lineair approximation but it works really well for computing in your head 8-) I just subtract 50% from the result and if the remainder is not too large, every procent more or less is worth close to 7 Elo points. A bit simpler to compute than
Rémi Coulom wrote:
James Constance wrote: Image
This is the old traditional Elo formula, based on the Gaussian distribution. Most modern rating systems use another formula that is simpler to inverse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
(see section "mathematical details").

Rémi
This was in this old thread I dredged up from archives: http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... roximation It is very close indeed to what you'd expect from Stockfish Dev. But the uncertainty margins with so little games are very very big!
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

Lion
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:26 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by Lion » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:26 pm

http://www.cegt.net/40_4_Ratinglist/40_ ... liste.html

SF Development version = 3568
SF8 = 3541 => dev is about 30 ELO higher

ASMFish is about 30% faster than SF Dev

Houdini 5 = 3536
Houdini 6 = about 55 > than Houdini 5
Houdini 6 = about 3591
Houdini 6 is about 23 ELO higher than SF Dev

I assume 30% speed increase speed for ASMFish would cover this 23 ELO gap ?

rgds

JJJ
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Houdini 6 has been released

Post by JJJ » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm

Lion wrote:http://www.cegt.net/40_4_Ratinglist/40_ ... liste.html

SF Development version = 3568
SF8 = 3541 => dev is about 30 ELO higher

ASMFish is about 30% faster than SF Dev

Houdini 5 = 3536
Houdini 6 = about 55 > than Houdini 5
Houdini 6 = about 3591
Houdini 6 is about 23 ELO higher than SF Dev

I assume 30% speed increase speed for ASMFish would cover this 23 ELO gap ?

rgds
Maybe at short time control, not in rapid or long game.

Post Reply