Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

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MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by MikeGL »

Vinvin wrote: I found the similar mainline from 2010 in the post #9 (with Fritz 12) and #10 (with Rybka 2.3.2a) in this thread : https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-a ... -deep-blue
rigamagician #10 Jul 21, 2010
Interesting. From a 2007 post by Zahl on Chessninja:
However, Rybka says that's not all there is to it. After 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 white has 47.Qd7+ Re7 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6, hitting the rook and the queen at the same time. Black can try 49...Qd3+ 50.Kg1 Re8, but after 51.Ra1 there is no perpetual and the attack continues."
I tried to follow the line which you have quoted from a chess.com user,
but it seems SF8 and its variants found an improvement and black can
still hold with a 0.00 score.

Instead of 49...Qd3+ 50.Kg1 Re8 as quoted above, black can try Qb1+ followed by Qxf5+ and game could continue with even position as follows according to SF.

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Engine1"]
[Black "Engine2"]
[Result "?"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "34"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

46. Ra6 Qe3 47. Qxd6 Re8 48. Qd7+ Re7 49. Qc6 Qxe4 50. d6 Qb1+ 51. Kf2
Qxf5+ 52. Kg1 Rd7 53. Qxb5 Qe6 54. Qc5 Kg6 55. b5 e4 56. Rc6 e3 57. Qxc4
Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59. Qe2 Ra7 60. Ra6 Rd7 61. c4 f5 62. Ra3 f4„© *
[/pgn]

Maybe modern SF8 and its variants found an improvement with 46.Qd7+ or 46.Qxb6 which seems to be stronger, (pointed out by Lyudmil above) and could be better than what Deep Blue actually played (46.Ra6!?), though this 46.Ra6 of DB2 needs deeper analysis with modern engines and bigger hardware.

regards
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Milos
Posts: 4190
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:47 am

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Milos »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.

John Nunn

http://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-8-d ... d-part-one
says that was draw.

Who is right ?
Qe3 draws despite initial big score. It has been extensively analysed (beaten to death) and in all cases it ends up in a drawn 7-men endings.
at least read the whole thread before posting BS.

I already demonstrated white wins in all lines.
Hi troll, nice to see you again. Sorry, but you never ever managed to actually demonstrate anything in this forum so no point bothering with you...
Top
Rodolfo Leoni
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: 15.h4 instead of Kf4:

[d]5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4
I accept your draw offer.....

[d]5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4

Code: Select all

FEN: 5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4

AsmFishW_2017-07-10_popcnt:
 8/8	00:00	 934	934k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6
 9/9	00:00	 1k	1,245k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7
 10/10	00:00	 2k	1,928k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4
 11/13	00:00	 3k	3,066k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5
 12/15	00:00	 4k	3,793k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6
 13/18	00:00	 6k	5,698k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4
 14/20	00:00	 7k	7,209k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4
 15/21	00:00	 10k	4,905k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6
 16/23	00:00	 13k	6,669k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6
 17/23	00:00	 16k	7,776k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6
 18/25	00:00	 19k	6,293k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6 16.Rf4 Kc6
 19/25	00:00	 22k	7,352k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6 16.Rf4 Kc6
 20/29	00:00	 27k	8,905k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3
 21/29	00:00	 31k	7,681k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3
 22/29	00:00	 35k	8,859k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6
 23/29	00:00	 40k	8,096k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6
 24/32	00:00	 47k	7,830k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6 19.Rd4+ Kc7 20.Kf4
 25/33	00:00	 54k	9,014k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.h5 Kd6 19.Rd4+ Ke6 20.Re4+ Kd6
 26/33	00:00	 62k	8,834k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Rf4 Kb7 20.Kh3
 27/33	00:00	 70k	8,735k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5
 28/35	00:00	 80k	8,930k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5
 29/35	00:00	 92k	8,327k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5
 30/36	00:00	 107k	8,211k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4
 31/43	00:00	 252k	10,062k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Re4 Kc5
 32/43	00:00	 288k	10,656k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6
 33/43	00:00	 333k	11,090k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6 23.Rf6+ Kd7 24.Rf7+ Kc6
 34/43	00:00	 364k	11,375k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6 23.Rf6+ Kd7 24.Rf7+ Kc6
 35/44	00:00	 458k	11,744k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4 Rc5 26.Ra4
 36/44	00:00	 535k	11,887k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5
 37/44	00:00	 573k	12,184k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4
 38/44	00:00	 616k	12,324k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4
 39/44	00:00	 680k	12,357k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5
 40/44	00:00	 701k	12,517k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Ke4 Kd7
 41/50	00:00	 1,042k	12,861k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Re5 25.Rf6+ Kc7 26.Rf7+ Kd6 27.Kg4 Re4+ 28.Kf3 Rxh4
 42/50	00:00	 1,119k	11,299k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Ke3 Kc5 26.Kd3 Kb4 27.c5+ Kxc5
 43/50	00:00	 1,242k	9,482k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Rf6+ Kd7 26.Rf7+ Kd6 27.Kg4 Rc5 28.Rf6+ Kd7 29.h5
 44/50	00:00	 1,474k	7,718k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Kg4 Rc5 26.Kg3 Kb7 27.Kf3 Kc7 28.Rg4
 45/50	00:00	 2,694k	5,387k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Re4 Kd6 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Kf3 Rc5 23.Rg4 Kd6 24.Ke3 Rh5 25.Kd4 Kc6 26.Re4 Kd6 27.Rf4 Kc6 28.Ke4 Kb6
 46/54	00:00	 3,423k	5,063k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Re4 Kd6 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Kf3 Rc5 23.Rg4 Rf5+ 24.Rf4 Re5 25.Rf8 Kc5 26.Kf4 Re2 27.Rc8+ Kd6 28.c5+ Kd5 29.c6 Re4+ 30.Kg3 Kd6 31.c7
 47/55	00:18	 84,958k	4,534k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Re5 14.Kg4 Kc6 15.Rf6+ Kd7 16.Kf3 Kc7 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf8 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd7
 48/55	00:21	 100,764k	4,581k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 49/55	00:24	 111,434k	4,613k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 50/55	00:26	 122,828k	4,576k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 51/55	00:29	 134,908k	4,569k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 52/55	00:33	 151,560k	4,569k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 53/55	00:40	 186,075k	4,578k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 54/55	00:43	 198,051k	4,558k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 55/55	00:47	 214,793k	4,543k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 56/55	01:03	 284,014k	4,447k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 57/55	01:32	 400,618k	4,350k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 58/55	01:33	 405,857k	4,346k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
F.S.I. Chess Teacher
Top
Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Vinvin »

MikeGL wrote:
Vinvin wrote: I found the similar mainline from 2010 in the post #9 (with Fritz 12) and #10 (with Rybka 2.3.2a) in this thread : https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-a ... -deep-blue
rigamagician #10 Jul 21, 2010
Interesting. From a 2007 post by Zahl on Chessninja:
However, Rybka says that's not all there is to it. After 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 white has 47.Qd7+ Re7 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6, hitting the rook and the queen at the same time. Black can try 49...Qd3+ 50.Kg1 Re8, but after 51.Ra1 there is no perpetual and the attack continues."
I tried to follow the line which you have quoted from a chess.com user,
but it seems SF8 and its variants found an improvement and black can
still hold with a 0.00 score.

Instead of 49...Qd3+ 50.Kg1 Re8 as quoted above, black can try Qb1+ followed by Qxf5+ and game could continue with even position as follows according to SF.

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Engine1"]
[Black "Engine2"]
[Result "?"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "34"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

46. Ra6 Qe3 47. Qxd6 Re8 48. Qd7+ Re7 49. Qc6 Qxe4 50. d6 Qb1+ 51. Kf2
Qxf5+ 52. Kg1 Rd7 53. Qxb5 Qe6 54. Qc5 Kg6 55. b5 e4 56. Rc6 e3 57. Qxc4
Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59. Qe2 Ra7 60. Ra6 Rd7 61. c4 f5 62. Ra3 f4„© *
[/pgn]

Maybe modern SF8 and its variants found an improvement with 46.Qd7+ or 46.Qxb6 which seems to be stronger, (pointed out by Lyudmil above) and could be better than what Deep Blue actually played (46.Ra6!?), though this 46.Ra6 of DB2 needs deeper analysis with modern engines and bigger hardware.

regards
Here, SF prefers 55. Rc6. Long lines possible, no clear win found because of the exposed white king in a QRpppp vs QRppp endgame

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Engine1"]
[Black "Engine2"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46"]
[Termination "unterminated"]

46. Ra6 Qe3 47. Qxd6 Re8 48. Qd7+ Re7 49. Qc6 Qxe4 50. d6 Qb1+ 51. Kf2
Qxf5+ 52. Kg1 Rd7 53. Qxb5 Qe6 54. Qc5 Kg6 55. Rc6 (55. b5 e4 56. Rc6 e3
57. Qxc4 Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59. Qe2 Ra7 60. Ra6 Rd7 61. c4 f5 62. Ra3 f4) 55.
.. e4 56. Qd4 (56. Qxc4 Qxc4 57. Rxc4 Kf5 58. b5 Rxd6 (58. .. Ke5 59. Rb4)
59. Rb4 Ke5 60. b6 Rd8 61. Kf2 f5 62. Rb5+ Ke6 63. Ke3 g6 64. c4 Rb8 65.
Kd4 Rd8+ 66. Rd5 (66. Kc3) 66. .. Rxd5+ 67. cxd5+ Kd6 68. g3 Kd7 69. h4 g5
70. hxg5 hxg5 71. g4 f4 72. Kxe4) 56. .. e3 57. Qxc4 Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59.
Rc5 Qe8 60. Kf1 Rxd6 61. Rc7 e2+ 62. Qxe2 Qd8 63. Qe4+ Kg8 64. Qc4+ Kh7 65.
Qe4+ Kg8 66. Rc5 Qd7 *
Top
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: 15.h4 instead of Kf4:

[d]5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4
I accept your draw offer.....

[d]5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4

Code: Select all

FEN: 5r2/8/1P1k3p/1R3p2/2P1p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 4

AsmFishW_2017-07-10_popcnt:
 8/8	00:00	 934	934k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6
 9/9	00:00	 1k	1,245k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7
 10/10	00:00	 2k	1,928k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4
 11/13	00:00	 3k	3,066k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5
 12/15	00:00	 4k	3,793k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6
 13/18	00:00	 6k	5,698k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4
 14/20	00:00	 7k	7,209k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4
 15/21	00:00	 10k	4,905k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6
 16/23	00:00	 13k	6,669k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6
 17/23	00:00	 16k	7,776k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6
 18/25	00:00	 19k	6,293k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6 16.Rf4 Kc6
 19/25	00:00	 22k	7,352k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kd4 Kd6 14.Rg4 Kc6 15.Re4 Kd6 16.Rf4 Kc6
 20/29	00:00	 27k	8,905k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3
 21/29	00:00	 31k	7,681k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3
 22/29	00:00	 35k	8,859k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6
 23/29	00:00	 40k	8,096k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6
 24/32	00:00	 47k	7,830k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Kf3 Kd6 19.Rd4+ Kc7 20.Kf4
 25/33	00:00	 54k	9,014k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.h5 Kd6 19.Rd4+ Ke6 20.Re4+ Kd6
 26/33	00:00	 62k	8,834k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Rf4 Kb7 20.Kh3
 27/33	00:00	 70k	8,735k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5
 28/35	00:00	 80k	8,930k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5
 29/35	00:00	 92k	8,327k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5
 30/36	00:00	 107k	8,211k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4
 31/43	00:00	 252k	10,062k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Re4 Kc5
 32/43	00:00	 288k	10,656k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6
 33/43	00:00	 333k	11,090k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6 23.Rf6+ Kd7 24.Rf7+ Kc6
 34/43	00:00	 364k	11,375k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Rf6+ Kb7 15.Rf7+ Kc6 16.Rf4 Kb7 17.Kg4 Kc7 18.Rd4 Kb6 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.Kf4 Rh5 21.Kg4 Rc5 22.Rf4 Kd6 23.Rf6+ Kd7 24.Rf7+ Kc6
 35/44	00:00	 458k	11,744k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4 Rc5 26.Ra4
 36/44	00:00	 535k	11,887k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5
 37/44	00:00	 573k	12,184k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4
 38/44	00:00	 616k	12,324k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5 25.Kf4
 39/44	00:00	 680k	12,357k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Rf5+ 16.Rf4 Re5 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf6+ Kd7 19.Ra6 Rf5+ 20.Kg4 Re5 21.Kf4 Rh5 22.Kg3 Rf5 23.Ra7+ Kd6 24.Kg4 Re5
 40/44	00:00	 701k	12,517k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Ke4 Kd7
 41/50	00:00	 1,042k	12,861k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Re5 25.Rf6+ Kc7 26.Rf7+ Kd6 27.Kg4 Re4+ 28.Kf3 Rxh4
 42/50	00:00	 1,119k	11,299k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Ke3 Kc5 26.Kd3 Kb4 27.c5+ Kxc5
 43/50	00:00	 1,242k	9,482k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Rf6+ Kd7 26.Rf7+ Kd6 27.Kg4 Rc5 28.Rf6+ Kd7 29.h5
 44/50	00:00	 1,474k	7,718k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd6 20.Re4 Kd7 21.Kf4 Kc6 22.Ke3 Rh5 23.Kf3 Kb6 24.Rf4 Kc6 25.Kg4 Rc5 26.Kg3 Kb7 27.Kf3 Kc7 28.Rg4
 45/50	00:00	 2,694k	5,387k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Re4 Kd6 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Kf3 Rc5 23.Rg4 Kd6 24.Ke3 Rh5 25.Kd4 Kc6 26.Re4 Kd6 27.Rf4 Kc6 28.Ke4 Kb6
 46/54	00:00	 3,423k	5,063k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Kc6 14.Re4 Kc7 15.Kf3 Kb6 16.Rd4 Kc7 17.Kf4 Rh5 18.Kg4 Rc5 19.Re4 Kd6 20.Kf4 Kc6 21.Ke3 Rh5 22.Kf3 Rc5 23.Rg4 Rf5+ 24.Rf4 Re5 25.Rf8 Kc5 26.Kf4 Re2 27.Rc8+ Kd6 28.c5+ Kd5 29.c6 Re4+ 30.Kg3 Kd6 31.c7
 47/55	00:18	 84,958k	4,534k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rh5 11.Kf3 Rf5+ 12.Rf4 Rc5 13.Kg3 Re5 14.Kg4 Kc6 15.Rf6+ Kd7 16.Kf3 Kc7 17.Rf7+ Kd6 18.Rf8 Rc5 19.Rf4 Kd7
 48/55	00:21	 100,764k	4,581k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 49/55	00:24	 111,434k	4,613k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 50/55	00:26	 122,828k	4,576k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 51/55	00:29	 134,908k	4,569k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 52/55	00:33	 151,560k	4,569k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 53/55	00:40	 186,075k	4,578k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 54/55	00:43	 198,051k	4,558k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 55/55	00:47	 214,793k	4,543k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 56/55	01:03	 284,014k	4,447k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 57/55	01:32	 400,618k	4,350k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
 58/55	01:33	 405,857k	4,346k	 0.00	4. ... Kc6 5.b7 Kc7 6.b8R Rxb8 7.Rxf5 Re8 8.Rf6 Kd7 9.Rf4 Re5 10.Rxe4 Rf5 11.Rd4+ Kc6 12.Rf4 Rh5 13.Kf3 Kb7 14.Ke4 Kc6 15.Kf3
9.c5 instead of Rf4:

[d]4r3/3k4/5R1p/2P5/4p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 9

I don't know if that might prove some kind of many-men tbs draw, I don't use 7-men, and also 6-men or even 5-men.

in any case, whatever the outcome, if not win, tomorrow I will demonstrate a much more convincing variation(now I am tired).

if this happens to be some kind of magical tbs draw, certainly white skipped a lot of wining lines along this path of the game.
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Milos wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.

John Nunn

http://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-8-d ... d-part-one
says that was draw.

Who is right ?
Qe3 draws despite initial big score. It has been extensively analysed (beaten to death) and in all cases it ends up in a drawn 7-men endings.
at least read the whole thread before posting BS.

I already demonstrated white wins in all lines.
Hi troll, nice to see you again. Sorry, but you never ever managed to actually demonstrate anything in this forum so no point bothering with you...
on the contrary, I managed to demonstrated 99% of my views(1% weak moves are always excused), and also sparked a substantial amount(over 50%) of the most interesting chess discussions.

take even only this very position: I suggest for the first time Qb6 is the best move.
no one found it until now, including engines.

something to say?
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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by kgburcham »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.

John Nunn

http://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-8-d ... d-part-one
says that was draw.

Who is right ?
Qe3 draws despite initial big score. It has been extensively analysed (beaten to death) and in all cases it ends up in a drawn 7-men endings.
at least read the whole thread before posting BS.

I already demonstrated white wins in all lines.
Hi troll, nice to see you again. Sorry, but you never ever managed to actually demonstrate anything in this forum so no point bothering with you...
on the contrary, I managed to demonstrated 99% of my views(1% weak moves are always excused), and also sparked a substantial amount(over 50%) of the most interesting chess discussions.

take even only this very position: I suggest for the first time Qb6 is the best move.
no one found it until now, including engines.
I cannot communicate with Lyudmil. would someone else post the position before this move Qb6. Lyudmil please do not reply, I never can follow your confusing posts. Let me clarify, post the position before this suggested move.
no chess program was born totally from one mind. all chess programs have many ideas from many minds.
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Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Vinvin »

kgburcham wrote: would someone else post the position before this move Qb6.
Do you mean here : https://lichess.org/H7Mqt0vY#85 ?
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MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by MikeGL »

Vinvin wrote: Here, SF prefers 55. Rc6. Long lines possible, no clear win found because of the exposed white king in a QRpppp vs QRppp endgame

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Engine1"]
[Black "Engine2"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46"]
[Termination "unterminated"]

46. Ra6 Qe3 47. Qxd6 Re8 48. Qd7+ Re7 49. Qc6 Qxe4 50. d6 Qb1+ 51. Kf2
Qxf5+ 52. Kg1 Rd7 53. Qxb5 Qe6 54. Qc5 Kg6 55. Rc6 (55. b5 e4 56. Rc6 e3
57. Qxc4 Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59. Qe2 Ra7 60. Ra6 Rd7 61. c4 f5 62. Ra3 f4) 55.
.. e4 56. Qd4 (56. Qxc4 Qxc4 57. Rxc4 Kf5 58. b5 Rxd6 (58. .. Ke5 59. Rb4)
59. Rb4 Ke5 60. b6 Rd8 61. Kf2 f5 62. Rb5+ Ke6 63. Ke3 g6 64. c4 Rb8 65.
Kd4 Rd8+ 66. Rd5 (66. Kc3) 66. .. Rxd5+ 67. cxd5+ Kd6 68. g3 Kd7 69. h4 g5
70. hxg5 hxg5 71. g4 f4 72. Kxe4) 56. .. e3 57. Qxc4 Qe5 58. Qg4+ Kh7 59.
Rc5 Qe8 60. Kf1 Rxd6 61. Rc7 e2+ 62. Qxe2 Qd8 63. Qe4+ Kg8 64. Qc4+ Kh7 65.
Qe4+ Kg8 66. Rc5 Qd7 *
Thanks for this additional lines, i would try to analyze the line you've
provided and post back once something interesting comes up.

regards
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User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 4889
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by MikeB »

BeyondCritics wrote:
Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.
This book was published recently, therefore Kasparov might have used Stockfish to analyze.
[d]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

My stockfish copy already computes for more than a few seconds and still cannot find the draw , showing 46.Ra6 Qe3 47.Dxd6 Re8 48.Qd7+ (not 48.Bf3? Qc1+ draw or 48.h4? Qxe4 draw ) Re7 49.Qc6
Whats' wrong with Qxb6?

latest dev SF-McB likes it a lot:

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.07.17"]
[Round "-"]
[White "SF-McBrain 170717 64 POP"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "360+6"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]


1. Qxb6 {+3.54/33 +350} Rxb6 {-2.74/29 +357} 2. Kf2 {+3.56/27 +354} Rb8
{-2.70/31 +349} 3. Ra7+ {+3.59/31 +340} Kg8 {-2.77/33 +343} 4. Kg3
{+3.69/30 +338} Rb6 {-2.33/31 +342} 5. Kh4 {+4.52/30 +326} Kh7
{-5.42/39 +271} 6. Kh5 {+5.16/30 +321} Bb8 {-6.19/39 +267} 7. Rd7
{+5.39/25 +325} Ra6 {-7.59/40 +247} 8. Rb7 {+5.79/26 +325} Bd6
{-6.63/30 +247} 9. Rxb5 {+5.99/25 +328} Ra2 {-9.09/35 +204} 10. Rb6
{+7.47/27 +327} Bf8 {-10.39/33 +202} 11. d6 {+8.80/28 +326} Rd2
{-8.55/31 +203} 12. Rb8 {+8.90/28 +330} Bxd6 {-9.68/30 +203} 13. Rd8
{+9.61/29 +322} Rf2 {-10.65/30 +203} 14. Rxd6 {+9.70/27 +325} Rf4
{-10.88/28 +202} 15. Bd5 {+9.88/29 +324} Rxf5+ {-11.57/30 +200} 16. Kh4
{+9.95/25 +327} Rf4+ {-11.78/33 +187} 17. Kg3 {+10.47/28 +325} Rf1
{-11.84/33 +147} 18. b5 {+15.06/24 +322} h5 {-16.12/30 +109} 19. b6
{+128.21/28 +316} Kh6 {-250.00/28 +104} 20. b7 {+128.36/28 +320}
1-0[/pgn]
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