Komodo and WCCC

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

by 600 elo, you mean 100-150 elo, right?

Maybe not 600 ELO, but I really mean A LOT.

About 10 years ago Fruit by F. Letouzey was the strongest engine.

Fruit 2.1 2695 (CCRL)

Then, it suddenly appeared Rybka. Since first version it was clearly stronger, and it fastly grew until Rybka 4. I only take note of Rybka 3, because it was the (seemingly) decompiled version.

Rybka 3 64-bit 3051 (CCRL)

Other engines was growing much slower. I don't exactly remember which one was the second. Toga (a Fruit derivative) was strong. Glaurung 2.1 and its first Stockfish derivates were interesting. But they still were far, far from Rybka strenght.

One day, someone decided it was time to put an end to Rybka reign and he decompiled it. He also decided to give it a name, Ippolit, and to pretend it wasn't a decompiled Rybka. Code was almost unreadable. Robbolito has been une of the first "Ippo-derivates" around. Many programmers looked at its code to understand its working...

As a result we now have many very strong engines. Most ideas were from Rybka author, Vasik Railich. To take ideas and to encode them without doing a mere copy is absolutely legal, of course.

To end this summary, Rybka author was found guilty of copying parts of Fruit code (evaluation) and Crafty code (move generator).

A pity. V.R. has been a genius, but he wasted all of his work by cloning parts of other programs. With some more genuine effort we could possibly have a Rybka 10 version now.

check the ratings, not more than 100 elo, so basically nothing substantial.

currently, SF beats Rybka by more than 85%.

if VR was a genius, what would you say about the authors of SF?

I do not understand why a so-called 'genius' would need to copy parts of other engines' code, geniuses usually do not copy, but are the ones whose ideas are copied.

the train of thought that VR(pity that we should spoil that thread with unsubstantial names and events) was at the root of later engines' success is completely made-up.

with what did he contribute to SF?
with what did he contribute to Komodo?

and, when he went back with Fritz 15, how much stronger he was able to make it?

50 elo, that is it, far below SF, far below Komodo.

if he was such of a genius, why was not he able to compete with SF and Komodo again?

VR contributed at an early stage of engine development, when engines almost completely lacked any positional chess knowledge.

as a relatively good chess played, he added some knowledge, and that was sufficient to top the rating lists for some time.

that is all, nothing more, nothing less.

[Rodolfo Leoni]

check the ratings, not more than 100 elo, so basically nothing substantial.

currently, SF beats Rybka by more than 85%.

if VR was a genius, what would you say about the authors of SF?

I do not understand why a so-called 'genius' would need to copy parts of other engines' code, geniuses usually do not copy, but are the ones whose ideas are copied.

the train of thought that VR(pity that we should spoil that thread with unsubstantial names and events) was at the root of later engines' success is completely made-up.

with what did he contribute to SF?
with what did he contribute to Komodo?

and, when he went back with Fritz 15, how much stronger he was able to make it?

50 elo, that is it, far below SF, far below Komodo.

if he was such of a genius, why was not he able to compete with SF and Komodo again?

VR contributed at an early stage of engine development, when engines almost completely lacked any positional chess knowledge.

as a relatively good chess played, he added some knowledge, and that was sufficient to top the rating lists for some time.

that is all, nothing more, nothing less.

If someone added some knowledge, he was Larry Kaufman, not V.R. You have some confusion. Rybka search routines made Rybka the strongest. He copied evaluation and move generator, it seems.

You can think what you want. It seems your opinion has nothing to do with facts. You cannot remember a post by Marco Costalba, writing his doubts about what was the difference between taking ideas and taking code. You cannot remember because you weren't here.

BTW, only honest people always put themselves in doubt.

The fact is, every top engine programmer studied each line of Robbolito to improve their engines. And those lines were from Rybka. Before Ippolit "revolution", other engines were much weaker. Every programmer can confirm it.

And I think this post is going very off topic. I'd like to stop talking about these old things.

[Kotlov]

Let the holywar begin ))

[Rodolfo Leoni]

Let the holywar begin ))

No, please, no....

I wanted to understand why such an indifference about WCCC, and it's deriving away. Since now, I'll ignore everything off topic.

[Kotlov]

Let the holywar begin ))

I wanted to understand why such an indifference about WCCC,

Because it does not matter which engine is stronger by 20 ELO points. Technology itself is important, and this technology is one and the same.

[Milos]

I wanted to understand why such an indifference about WCCC, and it's deriving away. Since now, I'll ignore everything off topic.

Because WCCC is third rate useless tournament, stuck in the past like a dinosaur and ignored by most of community because of its ridiculous rules and organization. It is mostly used for commercial engine promotion and advertising and has zero competitive value.
There you go...

[leavenfish]

You know, I held a World Championship OTB the other day...maybe Magnus and Naka and such did not show up, but just because I showed up, I won. I am the World Champion.

Absurd? Yes!

Heck, few people even regard those World Championship 'tournaments' a few years back which were basically lotteries.

A 'World Championship'...is not so just because someone calls it that. One can dicker over this...but when the best players are not present, it's pretty worthless. I...as a subscriber to Komodo am a bit embarrassed actually.

[bob]

I agree Stockfish should be allowed to partecipate. The official Stockfish 8 could be 10 ELO stronger than Komodo. And the fact Marco started this winning project severals years ago makes me feel proud to be Italian. But rules are rules. They are unfair, but still rules.

To let the event dies in silence isn't good for computer chess. We should all congratulate with K team, and then chess programmer should send an open letter to David Levy, if they want different rukes.

They should write:
"Dear David, while congratulating with Komodo we note the absence of..... We then propose 1...2....3....4.....99 as new rules for WCCC". The more programmers will sign it, the more impact it'll have.

While doing so, what's the cost of congratulations?

Apparently reading comprehension has reached an all-time low. Stockfish CAN participate if the authors want. The only ICGA rule preventing them from participating is that the AUTHORS have to either participate directly, or agree to allow someone else to operate the program. So the only thing preventing Stockfish from competing is the authors. And there is NO rule the ICGA can create that would be able to force them to participate if they don't want to.

Pretty simple, pretty concise. You are barking up the wrong tree...

[hgm]

You know, I held a World Championship OTB the other day...maybe Magnus and Naka and such did not show up, but just because I showed up, I won. I am the World Champion.

Absurd? Yes!

That would be pretty absurd, for many reasons. For instance, why would you call something a World Championship when it is not open for player in the world. Did you invite Magnus and Naka? Secondly, if you did widely announce it, how did you respond to the predictable reaction of the community that there already is a FIDE World Championship, which a huge prize fund. Did you offer larger prizes?

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

You know, I held a World Championship OTB the other day...maybe Magnus and Naka and such did not show up, but just because I showed up, I won. I am the World Champion.

Absurd? Yes!

Heck, few people even regard those World Championship 'tournaments' a few years back which were basically lotteries.

A 'World Championship'...is not so just because someone calls it that. One can dicker over this...but when the best players are not present, it's pretty worthless. I...as a subscriber to Komodo am a bit embarrassed actually.

older people have their predilections, they have been living with those for quite some time, so we should try to understand them.