What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[jhellis3]

the TC was quick, but, that is how engines are tested.

What a crock of shit.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

oh, I forgot one conclusion: a3 was a mistake.

I do not care how much Possioto and Noomen will suffer, but the draw has been proven.

[yanquis1972]

well, in all honesty i think this matter is closed to everyones satisfaction.

there is still a tangent that is nagging me; anyone have an opinion on this positon being a draw?

[d]4k3/6B1/2p1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - -

[Jeroen]

This position is not interesting. Playing f4?? as white, putting most of his pawns on black squares and give black a free e4 outpost for his knight, is about the worst possible way to play for white.

[yanquis1972]

i mean in isolation...you agree it's a fortress draw? it's odd bc engines really do not seem to see it. not in a static eval way but they cannot hold it. maybe requires 6-man TBs & bigger hardware/more time.

[IQ]

oh, I forgot one conclusion: a3 was a mistake.

I do not care how much Possioto and Noomen will suffer, but the draw has been proven.

Still waiting for your move. Or do you already resign and admit defeat?

[yanquis1972]

latest mcbrain as an example game:

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k3/6B1/2p1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - -"]

1. h3 Nd2+ 2. Ke2 Ne4 3. Kd3 Nf2+ {+4.78/49 1:37m} 4. Kc2
{+4.85/54 26s} Ne4 {+5.04/53 6:22m} 5. Kd3 {+5.10/52 28s}
Nf2+ {+5.03/56 4:28m} 6. Ke2 {+5.22/57 6:19m} Ne4 {+5.22/52
59s} 7. Bh6 {+5.29/49 28s} Nc3+ {+5.39/43 1:23m} 8. Kd3
{+5.47/51 2:48m} Nb5 {+5.55/51 2:31m} 9. e4 {+5.62/42 42s}
Kf7 {+5.69/48 1:25m} 10. Bg5 {+5.76/55 2:07m} Na7 {+5.84/49
1:15m} 11. Bh4 {+5.84/43 21s} Nb5 {+6.06/50 1:52m} 12. Bd8
{+6.06/45 24s} Na7 {+6.13/46 54s} 13. Bc7 {+6.39/46 1:18m}
Nb5 {+6.70/45 1:21m} 14. Be5 {+7.54/44 3:36m} h4 {+7.54/38
1:08m} 15. exf5 {+8.73/33 27s} exf5 {+14.99/37 1:03m}
16. d5 {+51.87/32 23s} cxd5 {+89.77/35 1:36m} 17. c6
{+128.24/37 20s} *[/pgn]

[Jeroen]

I don't know if it is a fortress or not. Maybe yes, maybe no.

For me the line is not interesting, though. The best move is clearly 28.e4. Putting pawns on black squares is bad, just like allowing black to move his passive knight to e4. Both are a huge improvement to black's position, so why allow it? After 28.e4 black never gets such a position.

[Jeroen]

Please post your answer to 28.e4 in this posting:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=64333

We all eagerly await your drawing lines!

[yanquis1972]

again, for me it has nothing at all to do with the game itself. the thread & the shape it took, perhaps...and if not, it's what i assume is a rare example of an engine that, when given a fortress (& not a manufactured, trick-the-computer one), lacks the crucial endgame knowledge to hold it. it doesn't have to recognize it or evaluate it as drawn, but surely modern engines should be able to maintain it. yet from what i can tell they can't.

either a 'simple fortress' was misdiagnosed or someone may be able to isolate & integrate whatever it is that top modern engines are currently missing to come up with the proper plan.