What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[fastgm]

well, thats rather astounding...

where did you find a june 11 build of SF? official site still lists june 6 as latest update available.

It's Stockfish from June 6th, compiled today from latest GitHub source.

[yanquis1972]

ah, thanks

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

a3 is weak, as both Ba3 and Bd6 in reply seemingly lead to a draw.
Carlsen made some mistakes tactically, to lose the game afterwards.

best moves is obviously c5, suggested by both SF and Komodo, and after e5 a3 Bc3 Bc3 e4 Nd2 Nf8, white has seemingly only not-losing, but very strong move, Re1(defending the e3 pawn and preparing either f2-f3 or f2-f4, otherwise white can not get rid of the nasty clamp in the form of the e4,e3,f2,g2 pawns, and will necessarily lose in due time) Bg4 f3 ef3 gf3 Bh5 Qe2:

[d]r2r1nk1/1p2qppp/p1p2n2/2Pp3b/3P4/PPB1PP2/2BNQ2P/R3R1K1 b - - 0 8

and, although SF shows some black edge here, white has excellent winning chances, but game should probably still end with a draw with perfect play.

SF will see white is much better on another 10-20 moves, of course...

instead, in both SF and Komodo's choice of this line, avoiding to play f3 or f4, white should lose.

[d]r1br1nk1/1p2qppp/p1p2n2/2Pp4/3Pp3/PPB1P3/2BN1PPP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 5

only choice for white is to play here Re1, otherwise white loses by force.

[yanquis1972]

a3 is weak, as both Ba3 and Bd6 in reply seemingly lead to a draw.

thanks for the analysis...fascinating.

i hope you might consider the possibility that you are wrong. i'm quite certain if the 2 strongest engines on very powerful hardware crunch a single position for some 2 hours, & the unaided result not only unearths the novel idea, & in so doing evaluates it not only as not 'weak', but in fact the preferred choice, i would certainly LIKE to think i'd thoroughly evaluate my previous assumptions to the contrary.

the reality is, once accepted & took on a3, it wasn't he who blinked first after Bxa3, it was aronian. have you looked at the possibility of 14. Nb1 being played instead? in short, have you bothered to even glance at the game with an engine running, out of sheer curiosity, to see if what you're claiming to be self-evident isn't, in fact, nonsense? or is that beneath you?

i really wish you would post with at least some consideration of what is being discussed, & how your attitude towards it comes across to others. i know you have valuable input & its a shame that its so often ignored due to your constant habit to hide behind a fragile veneer of superiority.

[Thomas Lagershausen]

a3 is weak, as both Ba3 and Bd6 in reply seemingly lead to a draw.
Carlsen made some mistakes tactically, to lose the game afterwards.

Wrong.

11...Bxa3? is losing.

See analyses of grandmaster Peter Svidler (Elo 2756):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XBcbpc7ays

[whereagles]

Lyudmil has a built-in trichotomic eval function. Every move is a WDL move.

This is objectively true

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

a3 is weak, as both Ba3 and Bd6 in reply seemingly lead to a draw.

thanks for the analysis...fascinating.

i hope you might consider the possibility that you are wrong. i'm quite certain if the 2 strongest engines on very powerful hardware crunch a single position for some 2 hours, & the unaided result not only unearths the novel idea, & in so doing evaluates it not only as not 'weak', but in fact the preferred choice, i would certainly LIKE to think i'd thoroughly evaluate my previous assumptions to the contrary.

the reality is, once accepted & took on a3, it wasn't he who blinked first after Bxa3, it was aronian. have you looked at the possibility of 14. Nb1 being played instead? in short, have you bothered to even glance at the game with an engine running, out of sheer curiosity, to see if what you're claiming to be self-evident isn't, in fact, nonsense? or is that beneath you?

i really wish you would post with at least some consideration of what is being discussed, & how your attitude towards it comes across to others. i know you have valuable input & its a shame that its so often ignored due to your constant habit to hide behind a fragile veneer of superiority.

sorry john, the fragile veneer is what you see, I see and feel nothing of the kind.

I must admit that I looked at it for only 5 minutes total.

in the a3 Ba3 line, SF showed 0.0 and, as I do not like a3, I immediately dismiss it. have not delved into it, is white winning by force, would be surprised.

but, even if black does not capture but retreats instead on d6, game should end in draw with ease, some white pressure, but nothing substantial.

on the other hand, after c5, white has good winning chances.

I posted 2 diagrams, what particularly you do not like about them?

concerning the 2-hour analysis and my dissident opinion, things are very simple indeed: you do not need to analyse anything, if you ahve sufficiently good evaluation. Why do I need 2 hours? SF and Komodo have to go through a see of variations, I, on the contrary, have to simply evaluate one single position.
certainly, I will finish before the 2 giants.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

a3 is weak, as both Ba3 and Bd6 in reply seemingly lead to a draw.
Carlsen made some mistakes tactically, to lose the game afterwards.

Wrong.

11...Bxa3? is losing.

See analyses of grandmaster Peter Svidler (Elo 2756):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XBcbpc7ays

analyses on youtube and similar channels are usually low quality.

both SF and Komodo show almost equal on Ba3, why should I trust Svidler.
this is a very tactical line, where not humans, but engines are to be trusted.

I looked at chesspro.ru, and they do not have a clue about what is going on in that game, neither about if a3 gives any side advantage, nor about anything else. and that is supposed to be the highest quality site around.

all they know is the position is complicated; that one I know too

I will look closer at the position a bit later, but what is obvious is a3 is bad move, because even Bd6 gives equality.

after c5 instead of a3, white has substantial advantage, on the other hand.

that is why Aronian blundered with a3, poor Aronian.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]r1br2k1/1p1n1ppp/p1p1pn2/2Pp4/3P4/qPN1PN2/2BB1PPP/3Q1RK1 b - - 0 3

anyone having a definitive conclusion on this position, arising after a3 Ba3 Ra3 Qa3 c5:

[d]r1br2k1/1p1n1ppp/p1p1pn2/2Pp4/3P4/qPN1PN2/2BB1PPP/3Q1RK1 b - - 0 3

is there a win?

for me, it is an obvious draw.

b6 might be losing, but both a5 and e5 should give black a straightforward draw, too much tactics for any human to see, but SF claims both lines are 0.0.

[yanquis1972]

analyses on youtube and similar channels are usually low quality.

youre really something else, man.

svidler is a super-GM who makes dutiful use of engines to check his analysis. his analysis of the game is top-notch given the circumstances (he'd just covered the entire round & had to post it that same day), but he admits its incomplete.

i don't recall him saying Bxa3 loses but i could be wrong. he did say something along the lines of Bd6 being workable & objectively best but restrained & passive.

a3 is a brilliant move any way you can possibly look at it. computers crunch the permutations & evaluate it as the best option in the position. it was essentially a novelty that took carlsen completely offguard. c5 might give winning chances but its not the way to beat carlsen...& its much less likely to win against any other human you have the chance to spring it on.

no one has said a3 wins on the spot, but that seems to be your criteria w/r/t its merits. that, or you truly believe yourself to have more insight into the position in 5 minutes than aronion, carlsen, svidler, top-end machines, & everyone else in the world. either way you walk alone here. i suppose you find that noble, or something.