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Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:10 pm
by Modern Times
lkaufman wrote: It would be nice if we could just put new SF ideas into Komodo and gain elo points, and I admit we do often try them, but they rarely work in Komodo. The differences between the two are too great. Just the fact that Stockfish got rid of half-plies while Komodo did not means that ideas optimized for Stockfish search are usually not optimal for Komodo. It seems to us that Stockfish has been adopting our ideas in the last couple years more than the other way around, perhaps coincidentally. For example, we were using a version of "Lazy SMP" long before Stockfish did, and I think SF switched after losing to us in TCEC. There are many other such instances.
Well the fact that Komodo's source is closed as you'd expect with a commercial program, and the fact you must be keeping your best ideas a secret, means that Stockfish will always have less potential to "take" from Komodo than the other way round.

Lazy SMP was not an original Komodo idea, but yes I think seeing how well K did with it prompted Stockfish to make the change.

You and Mark keep up the good work ! :) I'm amazed at how you can keep improving such a strong engine.

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:13 pm
by AdminX
@Larry or Mark

Can you provide details on the new setting options.

PS: Time for me to renew, what are the discounts? :D

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Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:04 pm
by Damir
New Settings are for Knight, Bishop, Rook and Queen scale

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:41 pm
by lkaufman
voyagerOne wrote:@Larry

Congrats with you improvements.

Out of curiosity...Are you able to indulge what idea(s) from SF did help with Komodo?
Some LMR - related ideas helped, in particular the improving-nonimproving distinction, but that was quite a while back. One idea that Komodo found helpful long before Stockfish did was to reduce some captures.

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:44 pm
by lkaufman
Wwqlcw wrote:I must say this is pretty cheesy as far as I'm concerned. My Komodo 10 + 1 year of updates expires in a week, and rather than announcing Komodo 10.5, I get hit with Komodo 11. I supported Dan back when he wasn't selling the program, merely asking his users/fans to help him out as much as we could... and so I did. And this is how his heirs repay me. Limburger.
This is not a problem. Any subscriber whose subscription runs out after today, the Chessbase 11 release date, is entitled to our first release of the Komodo 11 series, whatever we call it. You might have to email us to request it though if your sub has expired by our release date.

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:48 pm
by lkaufman
AdminX wrote:@Larry or Mark

Can you provide details on the new setting options.

PS: Time for me to renew, what are the discounts? :D

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Regarding the options nscale thru qscale, I actually thought they were being removed for release as they aren't that important and might exceed the limits of some GUIs. I'll have to talk to Mark about what to do about them for our own release.
Regarding discounts, it will be the usual 20% for recent purchaser and subscribers.

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:05 pm
by carldaman
lkaufman wrote:
AdminX wrote:@Larry or Mark

Can you provide details on the new setting options.

PS: Time for me to renew, what are the discounts? :D

Image
Regarding the options nscale thru qscale, I actually thought they were being removed for release as they aren't that important and might exceed the limits of some GUIs. I'll have to talk to Mark about what to do about them for our own release.
Regarding discounts, it will be the usual 20% for recent purchaser and subscribers.
Hi Larry,
Having those settings in the CB release and not in your own might make some customers feel 'cheated'. I'd say leave them in for now.
CL

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:02 am
by mjlef
I am sorry I cannot answer things here much until sometime Sunday. I am overloaded packing my parent's household for storage after some health issues required them to go to an assisted living facility.

The nscale...qscale were tuning options for an evaluation feature in Komodo. They were in an earlier test version we sent Chessbase, and not meant to be in the final version. I supplied them final versions without these options, but it looks like they instead shipped the test version instead. As long as the values are left all at 100, it should be fine. We are unlikely to leave them in our Komodo release since some chess GUIs have limits on the number of UCI options you can have, and leaving them in can either cause those GUIs to not work, or give somewhat mangled displays, which will frustrate users. I will see what Chessbase wants to do, but I assume they will want our newer and stronger version as an update.

If people are interested in a Komodo version with more options they can tune, and are willing to live with the fact that a few GUIs might not work well, we could make one in the future (with manual pages describing what they do). I would probably limit that to the Linux and Windows versions since I am not sure what is too much for other OS GUIs. And I suppose we would have to release a second more minimal option version for GUI capability.

Mark

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:09 am
by Adam Hair
mjlef wrote: If people are interested in a Komodo version with more options they can tune, and are willing to live with the fact that a few GUIs might not work well, we could make one in the future (with manual pages describing what they do). I would probably limit that to the Linux and Windows versions since I am not sure what is too much for other OS GUIs. And I suppose we would have to release a second more minimal option version for GUI capability.

Mark
Yes please!

Re: Komodo 11 is out!

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:33 am
by MikeB
mjlef wrote:I am sorry I cannot answer things here much until sometime Sunday. I am overloaded packing my parent's household for storage after some health issues required them to go to an assisted living facility.

The nscale...qscale were tuning options for an evaluation feature in Komodo. They were in an earlier test version we sent Chessbase, and not meant to be in the final version. I supplied them final versions without these options, but it looks like they instead shipped the test version instead. As long as the values are left all at 100, it should be fine. We are unlikely to leave them in our Komodo release since some chess GUIs have limits on the number of UCI options you can have, and leaving them in can either cause those GUIs to not work, or give somewhat mangled displays, which will frustrate users. I will see what Chessbase wants to do, but I assume they will want our newer and stronger version as an update.

If people are interested in a Komodo version with more options they can tune, and are willing to live with the fact that a few GUIs might not work well, we could make one in the future (with manual pages describing what they do). I would probably limit that to the Linux and Windows versions since I am not sure what is too much for other OS GUIs. And I suppose we would have to release a second more minimal option version for GUI capability.

Mark
Hi Mark,

I haven't had any issue with xboard on macOS at all ( i have added many many uci options to various engines and , never had a problem.). So please do not short change the macOS users. Thanks! Would be willing to test a version out if that helps ( already a paid up s subscriber). xBoard today is not your xBoard from the 90's rest assured.

Mike