Find the break

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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Find the break

Post by kgburcham »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Rg7 is much stronger

[D] r5rk/2p1p2p/p3q1pb/NpBbPp2/3P1P1P/2P5/P2Q2P1/R3R1K1 b - -


Stockfish

38 8:32 -3.88 1...g5 2.hxg5 Bxg5 3.fxg5 f4 4.Qxf4 Raf8 5.Qh2 Rxg5 6.Re2 Rff5 7.Rf1 Rh5 8.Rxf5 (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 -0.82 1...Rg7 2.Re2 Bxf4 3.Qxf4 g5 4.hxg5 Rag8 5.Rf1 Rxg5 6.Rff2 Rg4 7.Bxe7 Rxf4 8.Bf6+ (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 -0.74 1...Raf8 2.Rf1 Rg7 3.Rae1 Bxf4 4.Qxf4 g5 5.hxg5 Rfg8 6.Re2 Rxg5 7.Rff2 Rg4 8.Bxe7 (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 0.00 1...Bxf4 2.Qxf4 g5 3.hxg5 h6 4.Bxe7 Qxe7 5.e6 Be4 6.Rxe4 fxe4 7.Qf6+ Qg7 8.e7 Kh7 (9.383.941.791) 18325
no chess program was born totally from one mind. all chess programs have many ideas from many minds.
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Find the break

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

kgburcham wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Rg7 is much stronger

[D] r5rk/2p1p2p/p3q1pb/NpBbPp2/3P1P1P/2P5/P2Q2P1/R3R1K1 b - -


Stockfish

38 8:32 -3.88 1...g5 2.hxg5 Bxg5 3.fxg5 f4 4.Qxf4 Raf8 5.Qh2 Rxg5 6.Re2 Rff5 7.Rf1 Rh5 8.Rxf5 (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 -0.82 1...Rg7 2.Re2 Bxf4 3.Qxf4 g5 4.hxg5 Rag8 5.Rf1 Rxg5 6.Rff2 Rg4 7.Bxe7 Rxf4 8.Bf6+ (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 -0.74 1...Raf8 2.Rf1 Rg7 3.Rae1 Bxf4 4.Qxf4 g5 5.hxg5 Rfg8 6.Re2 Rxg5 7.Rff2 Rg4 8.Bxe7 (9.383.941.791) 18325
38 8:32 0.00 1...Bxf4 2.Qxf4 g5 3.hxg5 h6 4.Bxe7 Qxe7 5.e6 Be4 6.Rxe4 fxe4 7.Qf6+ Qg7 8.e7 Kh7 (9.383.941.791) 18325
why are you looking at weak engines' output?

after Rg7, Re2 is the only move which does not give more than 500cps black advantage, way more than in your main line.

also, after Rf8 Re2 Rf7 Rf1 Bf8!(when will SF find this move?) g3 h6:

[d]5brk/2p1pr2/p3q1pp/NpBbPp2/3P1P1P/2P3P1/P2QR3/5RK1 w - - 0 5

SF will say the position is draw, but white can not prevent g6-g5, for example after Rgg7, Kg8, g5, etc., with way more than 500cps edge for black.
Paloma
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: Find the break

Post by Paloma »

You wrote:

> after Rg7, Re2 is the only move which does not give more than 500cps black advantage, way more than in your main line.

> also, after Rf8 Re2 Rf7 Rf1 Bf8!(when will SF find this move?) g3 h6:

Why now Rf8 (you mean Raf8)? You claim above Rg7 is much stronger (Rag8 threatens)

Your line after 25...Rg7 26.Re2 Rf7 27.Rf1 Bf8 28.g3 h6 evaluate by K10.4 6cores, 8192 Mb Hash, 5men syzygy at depth 40 with -0.18 29.Rh2 Rg7 30.Bb4 Kh7 31.Ba3 Qb6 etc. so bullshit your line

Your line after 25...Raf8 26.Re2 Rf7 27.Rf1 Bf8 28.g3 h6 evaluate by K10.4 at depth 40 with -0.43 so another bullshit

For me the best move is 25...g5 evaluate by K10.4 with -3.58
yep
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Find the break

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Paloma wrote:You wrote:

> after Rg7, Re2 is the only move which does not give more than 500cps black advantage, way more than in your main line.

> also, after Rf8 Re2 Rf7 Rf1 Bf8!(when will SF find this move?) g3 h6:

Why now Rf8 (you mean Raf8)? You claim above Rg7 is much stronger (Rag8 threatens)

Your line after 25...Rg7 26.Re2 Rf7 27.Rf1 Bf8 28.g3 h6 evaluate by K10.4 6cores, 8192 Mb Hash, 5men syzygy at depth 40 with -0.18 29.Rh2 Rg7 30.Bb4 Kh7 31.Ba3 Qb6 etc. so bullshit your line

Your line after 25...Raf8 26.Re2 Rf7 27.Rf1 Bf8 28.g3 h6 evaluate by K10.4 at depth 40 with -0.43 so another bullshit

For me the best move is 25...g5 evaluate by K10.4 with -3.58
yep
I am happy it is bullshit in blue, and not bullshit in red, because bullshit in red is usually much more dangerous. :)

How many games have you seen in TCEC, where SF would evaluate a position with 0.0, and Komodo would win, or vice-versa?
This is just another case of this.

black wins everything; after Rh2, Rh7, followed by Rgg7, Qg8, etc., easily wins for black, I guess there are even stronger lines, no time to look now, but, to challenge your and Komodo/SF's take of the position, be certain that even with weakest strightforward play by black, after Rh2 Rgg7 Bb4 Kg8(and not g5, as SF likes) Nb3 Qc8:

[d]2q2bk1/2p1prr1/p5pp/1p1bPp2/1B1P1P1P/1NP3P1/P2Q3R/5RK1 w - - 0 4

which both SF and Komodo seemingly evaluate as 0.0, black wins very easily in all lines.

change this weaker winning line, to see how engine fortunes change with time. :)