Yes, I probably am being a little selective, but only in placing emphasis on those I have most experience with. I'll generally speak authoritatively on something I've personally used/experienced with. In regards to prozac or zoloft, I have no idea because I have no experience with it (do you?yanquis1972 wrote:arent you being selective? its extremely unlikely you'd notice a dose of prozac or zoloft either.
), yet the first experience I found of prozac online said:"Yesterday was my 3rd day taking 20mg of Prozac prescribed by the doctor for depression and major anxiety and panic attacks. ... 2nd day was good but woke up feeling anxious. Went to the restroom and had a panic attack."
Here's a horrible experience of somebody on zoloft:
"Feel asleep only to wake in a horrific panic attack. Arms and hands where numb and tingling and my brain was slow. More utterly terrifying was that I couldn't see. White and then flashes of vision broken. I had panic attack so like I've never endured and genuinely believed I was going blind"
There have been cases of unwise people misusing phenibut and having symptoms, but never as severe as these horrible stories and, only in cases of massive misuse.
That being said: I wouldn't recommend it for people who have no self-discipline or who are expecting some magic pill to make them "happy".
There's are reasons why this type of stuff is not available over the counter in most countries.
It's not that it's not useful, but that 1. It's difficult for a pharmaceutical company to monopolize and 2.It's difficult to prevent dumb people from acting dumb (i.e misusing something and hurting themselves).
In terms of effects it is, but in terms of potential harm, it needs to be handled carefully, but it's most likely not gonna be life threatening like the others.yanquis1972 wrote:I don't see how phenibut is not effectively a sedative, with very similar potential for abuse.
Drugs are only widespread in relation to how the pharmaceutical industry is regulated in a given country.yanquis1972 wrote:Similarly modafinil vs prescription ritalin or adderall - what's the real difference?? from the little ive read, its mostly down to how widespread the usage is.
Many prescription drugs which are illegal without a doctor's approval are substantially less harmful than alcohol, nicotine or even some over the counter drugs.
It simply depends on what can be monopolized and regulated, not what is effective vs what isn't.
This is the sad reality and the reason why people selling this stuff/submitting it for approval take people of power to very expensive banquets and make deals in order to get things approved. I've heard this myself from the mouths of a pharmaceutical sales person.
I was surprised when I visited Thailand in 2014 that they regularly use Piracetam as a hangover remedy, rather than a cognitive enhancer.
But it makes sense in a way...a hangover is caused by dehydration of the brain after all.
But again, this reflects how the regulation of pharmaceuticals, rather than objective merit generally (at least in many many cases) decides what becomes "widespread".
I'm not meaning to come across as condescending, or impolite John, but you admitted that you've only read little on the subject and I assume you also haven't tried modafinil.yanquis1972 wrote:They both seem to be very serious drugs with a truckload of side effects, some of which clearly indicate very high abuse risk. Nothing subtle about them, unless you assume that everyone will take such drugs only as prescribed/at therapeutic doses, which of course is folly.
So how can some of these opinions be any more than heresay or belief bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_bias)?
I have read dozens of case studies on modafinil, scoured over research and been taking it on and off for close to two years and have never experienced a single side-effect.
As mentioned elsewhere, this is just me and individuals should exercise due diligence prior to experimenting, but the assertion that this is an extremely dangerous substance is one i'd have to disagree with.
If a person lacks the maturity to discipline themselves or has an addictive personality, definitely they should avoid all of this stuff.
But this person should also avoid alcohol and tobacco too.
It's a strange culture we have where we can celebrate the widespread consumption of a neuro-toxin (which is exactly what alcohol is), while shaking our heads at people looking for ways to "hack" the brain and become smarter.
Personally, I love drinking and nootropics, although never at the same time!
