Fire 5 is out!

[Rebel]

Makes me wonder if you had reasoned the same in the R/F case if such identical - albeit meaningless - strings would have been discovered.

In the R/F case I was not only talking about strings. I was talking about similaries and analogies in all parts of the engine. Everything was explained. In this case we got some strings of endgame positions and a lot of not understandable allegations.

There was no copying, only takking ideas, granted a lot of ideas. There is however in Fire. Smells as a double standard.

[Alexander Schmidt]

Makes me wonder if you had reasoned the same in the R/F case if such identical - albeit meaningless - strings would have been discovered.

In the R/F case I was not only talking about strings. I was talking about similaries and analogies in all parts of the engine. Everything was explained. In this case we got some strings of endgame positions and a lot of not understandable allegations.

There was no copying, only takking ideas, granted a lot of ideas. There is however in Fire. Smells as a double standard.

That's your opinion. In my opinion there are too much similaries in not playing strength relevant things, in my opinion Rybka started as Fruit.

Call it double standard, I want to see the same evidences as you and many others wanted to see in the past in the Rybka case. If you defend Rybka that hard, why don't you defend Fire? Tell me as an expert: Is the shown evidence enough to say that Fire is a Stockfish clone?

[Rebel]

Makes me wonder if you had reasoned the same in the R/F case if such identical - albeit meaningless - strings would have been discovered.

In the R/F case I was not only talking about strings. I was talking about similaries and analogies in all parts of the engine. Everything was explained. In this case we got some strings of endgame positions and a lot of not understandable allegations.

There was no copying, only takking ideas, granted a lot of ideas. There is however in Fire. Smells as a double standard.

That's your opinion. In my opinion there are too much similaries in not playing strength relevant things, in my opinion Rybka started as Fruit.

What a person believes is irrelevant, only what they can proof. I would say start a thread in EO with your proof.

Call it double standard, I want to see the same evidences as you and many others wanted to see in the past in the Rybka case.

I gave you the URL, look at the admission of the 2 Rybka investigatoes (Watkins & Wegner) in the document, page 3, subject mixed messages.

If you defend Rybka that hard, why don't you defend Fire? Tell me as an expert: Is the shown evidence enough to say that Fire is a Stockfish clone?

It's not about Rybka, I use it because of the double standard. If such evidence (equal strings) had been found in Rybka 1.0 all that massive work done by Watkins and Wegner hardly had been necessarily. See now?

About Fire, I don't know if it's a SF clone, the evidence for that is not sufficient but he surely has a habit to put himself into trouble.

[velmarin]

Tell me as an expert: Is the shown evidence enough to say that Fire is a Stockfish clone?

The question is not direct to my person, but indirectly it may be.

I want to clarify that I never have said that is a clone, at least how I so understand.
If a derivative.
Only a have since that Word and I am repentant, yet so is speaks of changes and work in the code.

you will change according to change the Github of Stockfish, a clone derived more, but to disguise has lost its strength.

I think that many parameters of the code, have been changed to give another form of game or disguise its origin. And he has almost been achieved.
These chains have betrayed him, but he has been close.
Now we will see the future of Fire with the schema and structure Stockfish has a promising future ahead.

[Alexander Schmidt]

What a person believes is irrelevant, only what they can proof. I would say start a thread in EO with your proof.

Why should I? Everything is told, if you like you can search the Forum.

It's not about Rybka, I use it because of the double standard.

It is a long time since the Rybka case, more than 10 years. People did a lot of work to show their points and tried to prove their point of view. It is not at all comparable to this case. And even if the reasoning would have been as poor as Mr Velascos today, Rybka is in the meantime accepted, no one complains nowadays. So even if someone would have done a mistake, don't you think after 10 years a polemic "double standard" designation is out of place? Let's bury the hatchet.

About Fire, I don't know if it's a SF clone, the evidence for that is not sufficient but he surely has a habit to put himself into trouble.

Fine. We agree. But we are talking about Fire in this thread, not about Mr. Schmidts habit.

[Alexander Schmidt]

I want to clarify that I never have said that is a clone, at least how I so understand.

Really?

Work in Fire 5 has only been on the code of Stockish.

Fire 5 is an engine from the Stockfish code, no doubt.

You simply changed the parameters of Stockfish and obfuscated everything to do that looks like another engine.

[Alexander Schmidt]

except for the endgame stuff which means nothing.

I not have seen no question, just a lot of signs strange that you has since, with a "details?"

Well the strange signs is what you posted as evidence. Thats why I asked for "Details?" I'd like to see which strings except the 16 endgame identifier are from Stockfish.

[velmarin]

I'd like to see which strings except the 16 endgame identifier are from Stockfish.

No, if that not is enough evidence for you,
I am not going to argue with a wall.
Not waste any more time.
In addition someone wrote this:

It IS illegal to copy and paste any single line of code of a copyrighted engine like Fruit without the required credits, regardless if it is tolerated by a mayority or not.

It IS illegal to start with a copyrighted code, and it is still illegal if every single line of the code is rewritten, regardless how many ELO the new engine may be stronger.

[Alexander Schmidt]

I'd like to see which strings except the 16 endgame identifier are from Stockfish.

No, if that not is enough evidence for you,
I am not going to argue with a wall.

I was seriously asking, you told there is much more than this endgame identifiers. There are several ways how they could get into Fire and they are not enough to be sure that Stockfish code was copied.

[mar]

I was seriously asking, you told there is much more than this endgame identifiers. There are several ways how they could get into Fire and they are not enough to be sure that Stockfish code was copied.

I'm the last one to defend Norman, but seriously, EG names prove exactly nothing.
If we agree about this order: pnbrqk. Unique? Bullshit of course.