Doubling of time control

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duncan
Posts: 9461
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Doubling of time control.

Post by duncan » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:04 pm

Laskos wrote:
duncan wrote:
Laskos wrote:It says that at this 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level the doubling won't give any gain and draw rate becomes 100% for Komodo in self-play.
would you know about how many extra ply is needed to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level with same evaluation. ?
Maybe double of what we are seeing today. Just guesstimate. It won't get to non-losing player from standard opening position, but very close to that.
your guestimate is 30 moves or so to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO ?

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Laskos
Posts: 9114
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: Doubling of time control.

Post by Laskos » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:42 am

duncan wrote:
Laskos wrote:
duncan wrote:
Laskos wrote:It says that at this 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level the doubling won't give any gain and draw rate becomes 100% for Komodo in self-play.
would you know about how many extra ply is needed to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level with same evaluation. ?
Maybe double of what we are seeing today. Just guesstimate. It won't get to non-losing player from standard opening position, but very close to that.
your guestimate is 30 moves or so to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO ?
Yes, maybe. Shown depth is pretty meaningless with how engines search today, it shows iteration. There are extensions and reductions, and the tree is pretty bushy at low depths and sparse at much higher depths. But the engine with 60-70 plies shown depth (iteration) has a pretty good view on the whole relevant part of the game. Also take into account the improvements in opening and endgame databases. I expect it to be very close to non-losing player from starting position.

duncan
Posts: 9461
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Doubling of time control.

Post by duncan » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:16 am

Laskos wrote:
duncan wrote:
Laskos wrote:
duncan wrote:
Laskos wrote:It says that at this 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level the doubling won't give any gain and draw rate becomes 100% for Komodo in self-play.
would you know about how many extra ply is needed to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO level with same evaluation. ?
Maybe double of what we are seeing today. Just guesstimate. It won't get to non-losing player from standard opening position, but very close to that.
your guestimate is 30 moves or so to get to 3700-3800 CCRL ELO ?
Yes, maybe. Shown depth is pretty meaningless with how engines search today, it shows iteration. There are extensions and reductions, and the tree is pretty bushy at low depths and sparse at much higher depths. But the engine with 60-70 plies shown depth (iteration) has a pretty good view on the whole relevant part of the game. Also take into account the improvements in opening and endgame databases. I expect it to be very close to non-losing player from starting position.
and guestimate to get to 30 moves takes how long. 30 years ?

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