It's just about avoiding silly 3-fold repetition when the position is equal.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Is not this 'simple 3-fold draw score' a kind of contempt?
Why do you call this "contempt", what definition do you use for "contempt"?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
It's just about avoiding silly 3-fold repetition when the position is equal.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Is not this 'simple 3-fold draw score' a kind of contempt?
Robert, please be so kind to answer the 2 other specific questions I addressed to you, and then I will tell you what my definition of contempt is.Houdini wrote:It's just about avoiding silly 3-fold repetition when the position is equal.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Is not this 'simple 3-fold draw score' a kind of contempt?
Why do you call this "contempt", what definition do you use for "contempt"?
It shouldn't make any difference.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:But people are not very much concerned about definitions, what they would like to know is what would H score with drawscore=0 and drawscore=-7 in the current rapid, where it is leading SF, while in stage 3 it trailed behind.
Actually, Komodo's attempt does not modify the value of its own pieces. It does something else to discourage early piece captures and avoid draws (with a positive contempt), or exchange pieces and seek draws (with a negative contempt). But I can see how people might think it modifies piece scores.Houdini wrote:That's a simple 3-fold draw score to avoid silly move repetitions. The score depends on the material that is still on the board. The 3-fold repetition score only operates in a narrow band around 0.00 and doesn't change whether queens or other pieces are kept on the board.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:and what do the -5cps(stage 3) and -7cps(rapid) scores at drawing nodes/3-fold repetitions mean then?
The real contempt used by Houdini and Komodo has the effect of modifying the piece values ("my pieces are worth slightly more than your pieces") so that exchanges are avoided unless they are really favorable. This contempt works all the time, not just in a very narrow band around 0.00.
It's a nice idea anyway.mjlef wrote:Actually, Komodo's attempt does not modify the value of its own pieces. It does something else to discourage early piece captures and avoid draws (with a positive contempt), or exchange pieces and seek draws (with a negative contempt). But I can see how people might think it modifies piece scores.Houdini wrote:That's a simple 3-fold draw score to avoid silly move repetitions. The score depends on the material that is still on the board. The 3-fold repetition score only operates in a narrow band around 0.00 and doesn't change whether queens or other pieces are kept on the board.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:and what do the -5cps(stage 3) and -7cps(rapid) scores at drawing nodes/3-fold repetitions mean then?
The real contempt used by Houdini and Komodo has the effect of modifying the piece values ("my pieces are worth slightly more than your pieces") so that exchanges are avoided unless they are really favorable. This contempt works all the time, not just in a very narrow band around 0.00.
Now this is simply not true.Houdini wrote:It shouldn't make any difference.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:But people are not very much concerned about definitions, what they would like to know is what would H score with drawscore=0 and drawscore=-7 in the current rapid, where it is leading SF, while in stage 3 it trailed behind.
Note that Houdini is exactly the same engine with identical settings in the Rapid, there is no difference with Stage 3. Perceived performance variations are just a roll of the dice.
Code: Select all
value[my_queen]=value[opponent_queen] +20;
value[my_rook]=value[opponent_rook] +10;
value[my_pawn]=value[opponent_pawn] +1; etc., for asymmetric material piece value contempt
Code: Select all
score+=7; for drawscore
Nor does Houdini.mjlef wrote:Actually, Komodo's attempt does not modify the value of its own pieces. It does something else to discourage early piece captures and avoid draws (with a positive contempt), or exchange pieces and seek draws (with a negative contempt). But I can see how people might think it modifies piece scores.
The 3-fold value is not -5 nor -7, it varies. See my post above: "the score depends on the material that is still on the board.". You could easily have concluded this from observing Houdini's games in TCEC.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Now this is simply not true.
I respect very much your work on Houdini, but you simply state too many things the way they are not.
Nothing changed between H_stage3 & H_rapid?
Certainly, the -5 score was changed to -7 automatically in some way, by H itself, by the TCEC directors, by the TCEC software?
Ok, even if this were true, it is still contempt.Houdini wrote:The 3-fold value is not -5 nor -7, it varies. See my post above: "the score depends on the material that is still on the board.". You could easily have concluded this from observing Houdini's games in TCEC.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Now this is simply not true.
I respect very much your work on Houdini, but you simply state too many things the way they are not.
Nothing changed between H_stage3 & H_rapid?
Certainly, the -5 score was changed to -7 automatically in some way, by H itself, by the TCEC directors, by the TCEC software?
The Houdini that plays in the Rapid is rigorously the same as in Stage 3.
Heh heh...let me get the Popcorn.Houdini wrote:I have noticed your tendency to describe Komodo's working in an obscure way ("it does something different"), so as to make it appear more complex than it actually is...