What is the secret of Zappa?

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi there,

engine is from 2008!

If I added more and more newer / modern engine or engine versions Zappa made more points. And Elo goes high point for point!

Feeling is that different things must be included other rogrammers "maybe" overview all the years? Could be indeed an interesting secret.

Loud thinking!
And after all what I saw from Zappa it can be not included in the first playing phase ... more or less in the very late middlegame before Transition into endgame. Here Zappa is playing very strong. Often I am looking in Detail but I am not strong enough to see that with games only.

Best
Frank

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Hi there,

engine is from 2008!

If I added more and more newer / modern engine or engine versions Zappa made more points. And Elo goes high point for point!

Feeling is that different things must be included other rogrammers "maybe" overview all the years? Could be indeed an interesting secret.

Loud thinking!
And after all what I saw from Zappa it can be not included in the first playing phase ... more or less in the very late middlegame before Transition into endgame. Here Zappa is playing very strong. Often I am looking in Detail but I am not strong enough to see that with games only.

Best
Frank

Das ist ein uralter Motor.
Spielt er eigentlich besser als SF oder Komodo?

Aber ja, in Mexico er zwang Rybka in die Knie.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Lyudmil,

Stockfish and Komodo have big advantages to the others today. But with each engine update the others comes in bigger steps closer.

I made on my other systems a new test with Zappa Mexico II. A test on my two Q9550 systems I am using in SWCR times vs. 30 newer engines / versions of engines. I compare the results in ELO and find out after 1.600 games ... +35 ELO for Zappa Mexico II (same engine, same version).

The reason that I wrote my message!
To see in my current list too ...

I think vs. the opponents we have today Zappa is around 50 Elo stronger as vs. the opponents we have at the time engine is available (2008). Very unusual. It must be a secret in Zappa!

Best
Frank

Your German is good!
My English is bad ... I know!

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Hi Lyudmil,

Stockfish and Komodo have big advantages to the others today. But with each engine update the others comes in bigger steps closer.

I made on my other systems a new test with Zappa Mexico II. A test on my two Q9550 systems I am using in SWCR times vs. 30 newer engines / versions of engines. I compare the results in ELO and find out after 1.600 games ... +35 ELO for Zappa Mexico II (same engine, same version).

The reason that I wrote my message!
To see in my current list too ...

I think vs. the opponents we have today Zappa is around 50 Elo stronger as vs. the opponents we have at the time engine is available (2008). Very unusual. It must be a secret in Zappa!

Best
Frank

Your German is good!
My English is bad ... I know!

Zum Tazzelwurm.

Kein Geheimnis, in Zappa ist mehr Wissen eingebaut worden als im Durchschnittsmotor, also nutzt Zappa die Wissensluecken ihrer Gegner.

Durchaus vergleichbar mit Equinox, Chiron, usw.

Frank, you should write more threads about current engines, and not stay all the time in the past.

If you ask me, my favourite engine once was Gandalf, followed by Phalanx, but times change...

[Swifty357]

Yeah I like zappa mexico 2 alot. I used a setting called dissident aggressor which weakens the engine considerably but makes zappa mexico 2 an attacking machine. I got the settings off this forum i believe. Sometimes it will smoke a much superior engine. Yeah i agree to be an engine from 2008 it still relevant. But of course stockfish, and komodo, and gull ect. are way to strong for it.

[Frank Quisinsky]

You can find comments to each current updated engine in TOP-50 in tournament selection if you like with move stats and additional information to the styles of engines.

But if you are thinking ... I stay "all the time" in the past ... I am sure you are right. Such an exact oberserver you are I have normely no interest to disagree.

But why you wrote such aggressive messages?
Do you have a real problem in your life?

No problem, i am available for you and can help if you like! I help so many persons with here private problems ...

If you like to write such a bullshit you can be sure you will get the right answere.

And to Gandalf and Phalanx.
Yes, I like the engines too.

With Gandalf I started the first UCI Edition for Gambit-Soft and send a DVDs from my private money to Winboard programmers around the World and try that more and more engines are compatible to UCI, same for Winboard, for Arena and x other things I do in the past. I wrote a lot to Phalanx in the past ... most others have Fritz and Co in his brain and asked me ... what is Phalanx!

I am very proud of my computer chess history because I gave a lot of my time and try that our Hobby is more and more interesting for all of us. I have a reason to stay in the past because I am a part of the past in computer chess.

Now you have a bit material for your next bullshit message my dear Lyudmil. Give it me back ... your chance!

I have an open ear for your problems all the time. And of course if you like you can send it in German language. I understand German and three other languages if you like.

Best
Frank

[Ras]

I think vs. the opponents we have today Zappa is around 50 Elo stronger as vs. the opponents we have at the time engine is available (2008). Very unusual. It must be a secret in Zappa!

If I remember correctly, modern programs become dumber and dumber, but search deeper and deeper. So it may be that against Zappa, the gains in tactical strength are less than the losses in strategic strength.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Rasmus,

I have such an opinion too.

OK, we know that the programmer used all processor technics, available in 2008 and had a lot of knowledge to hardware and optimizations. But I am sure today that he had implemented unkown programming ideas to chess knowledge in the late middlegame.

It could be an order to analyze Zappa won games in the late middlegame phase with clearly stronger engines ... looking here ... are the others able to find moves Zappa are playing!

Can't saw why but after my feeling ... it must be a secret in Zappa and this could be very interesting.

Best
Frank

PS: I am not a fan of Zappa (complete style of engine, not what I like to prefer) but the program is mysterious ... same for Quazar and Junior for different other reasons.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Brandon,

in the first playing phase after opening book moves ... a normely playing style without such attacking ideas. But often in the late middlegame ... what you wrote here. Engine can be very dangerous.

All the time interesting to find out the strengths of engines for the own analyzes of games. And if Zappa have such a strength in late middlegame positions it could be interesting to search the detail.



Best
Frank

[Robert Flesher]

Yeah I like zappa mexico 2 alot. I used a setting called dissident aggressor which weakens the engine considerably but makes zappa mexico 2 an attacking machine. I got the settings off this forum i believe. Sometimes it will smoke a much superior engine. Yeah i agree to be an engine from 2008 it still relevant. But of course stockfish, and komodo, and gull ect. are way to strong for it.

It warms my heart to see people are still using my "Dissident Aggressor" settings. Cheers,