Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

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JJJ
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by JJJ » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:23 am

Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
You shouldn't watch TCEC then and don't use any engine but Stockfish because all others are clones of it, even if they don't play the same way, with different depth and nodes.

Henk
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Henk » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:34 am

JJJ wrote:
Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
You shouldn't watch TCEC then and don't use any engine but Stockfish because all others are clones of it, even if they don't play the same way, with different depth and nodes.
Yes you are right.

[At least they all use the same ideas but implement them a bit differently. Or they have different bugs.]

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cdani
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by cdani » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:42 pm

lkaufman wrote:The main thing is that Komodo just moves too fast in general in these games.
+10 and congratulations to have found why!

Dann Corbit
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:56 pm

Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
Calling the integrity of Throsten into question with no evidence is something to be ashamed of.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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Leto
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Leto » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:29 pm

Congrats to Robert for qualifying for the TCEC Superfinal. I'm excited to test Houdini 5 when it releases.

Dan Cooper
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Dan Cooper » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:57 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
Calling the integrity of Throsten into question with no evidence is something to be ashamed of.
But that's not how things work on the internet!

Henk
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Henk » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:56 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
Calling the integrity of Throsten into question with no evidence is something to be ashamed of.
I am not talking about Throsten. But engines that might be corrupt for they are not checked. I mean source code inspection.

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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:26 pm

Henk wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
Henk wrote:I am only making a statement that if there are (commercial) interests, results of tournaments can not be trusted. TCEC also doesn't check source code. Don't know if they do similarity checks.
Calling the integrity of Throsten into question with no evidence is something to be ashamed of.
I am not talking about Throsten. But engines that might be corrupt for they are not checked. I mean source code inspection.
I do not think anything of value would be determined by source code inspection and here is why:

The strongest engine in the world is Stockfish.
Stockfish is open source.
People can read the code and collect good ideas from it and put those ideas into their programs.

Now, I have no doubts whatsoever of the integrity of the Komodo team.
The engine source code is fully original, and new ideas that are inserted are inserted as new ideas. I say this as someone who has seen several iterations of code after it became commercial.

As for Houdini, Houdini is based on Ivanhoe {IMO - not proven, but it is public domain so fully legal}, not Stockfish. So to insert ideas into Houdini, they will have to be translated into the new framework. Simple cut and paste will simply not work.

And as for Stockfish, the code is right there for you to inspect.

Do you intend to call the integrity of the Andscacs author into question?
The gull author (it is open source)?
The Jonny author?

The casting of aspersions against chess programmers, tournament directors, etc. needs to stop.

IMO-YMMV
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Henk
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by Henk » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:14 pm

And if these engines may not be corrupt they may lack originality. Don't want to discuss originality. Might be that all these engines are copying (Stockfish) ideas I don't know. Probably normal average growth is fifty ELO points a year.

By the way draw rate of the mutual games of the first four engines is very high. Makes me suspicious too.

JJJ
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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Post by JJJ » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:34 pm

Henk wrote:And if these engines may not be corrupt they may lack originality. Don't want to discuss originality. Might be that all these engines are copying (Stockfish) ideas I don't know. Probably normal average growth is fifty ELO points a year.

By the way draw rate of the mutual games of the first four engines is very high. Makes me suspicious too.
The higher the rating, the higher the drawrate. You should know that...

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