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Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:22 pm
by daws
It will be a big test for Houdini in the final playing against an engine that has gone, if I've worked it out correctly, 101 games without defeat. I wonder if that is a TCEC record? Even in some games where Stockfish seemed, at least to a human observer, to have a lost position, it somehow managed to brilliantly get a draw.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:34 pm
by Isaac
daws wrote:It will be a big test for Houdini in the final playing against an engine that has gone, if I've worked it out correctly, 101 games without defeat. I wonder if that is a TCEC record? Even in some games where Stockfish seemed, at least to a human observer, to have a lost position, it somehow managed to brilliantly get a draw.
Tecnically there is no such a long streak of non lost games because Stockfish got updated between stages. And the final will be between some Houdini version and a Stockfish version that hasn't played a single game in the TCEC yet.
I'm not taking away Stockfish's credit though.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:39 pm
by rcmaddox
shrapnel wrote:
JJJ wrote:The settings problem wasn't Komodo team fault
If you believe that, you probably also believe in Fairies and Santa Claus, too ! Cho Chweet !
And if you don't believe it, you probably believe the moon landings never happened and G.W. Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:15 pm
by JJJ
rcmaddox wrote:
shrapnel wrote:
JJJ wrote:The settings problem wasn't Komodo team fault
If you believe that, you probably also believe in Fairies and Santa Claus, too ! Cho Chweet !
And if you don't believe it, you probably believe the moon landings never happened and G.W. Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks.
I believe the moon landings never happened and illuminatis are behind the 9/11. I believe in fairies but not Santa Claus.

And of course, I believe the settings problem wasn't Komodo team fault.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:54 pm
by Alexander Schmidt
Jouni wrote:Robert has really improved engine. In CCRL, CEGT and IPON Houdini 4 was 119, 154 and 137 points below Komodo 10.1. So progress has been around 140 ELO! Also the qualification to superfinal was the greatest surprise in last ten years or ever!!
So Houdini 5 is as strong as Stockfish? What are the odds!

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:34 pm
by APassionForCriminalJustic
Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Jouni wrote:Robert has really improved engine. In CCRL, CEGT and IPON Houdini 4 was 119, 154 and 137 points below Komodo 10.1. So progress has been around 140 ELO! Also the qualification to superfinal was the greatest surprise in last ten years or ever!!
So Houdini 5 is as strong as Stockfish? What are the odds!
I don't know why people claim such stupid things. We watch one stage of the final of TCEC and think we can say just how much stronger Houdini development is relative to Houdini 4. 140 Elo is absolutely ludicrous. Houdini definitely looks stronger; we still need to wait for its eventual release before we can test the bad boy for ourselves to see the true gain. The new Stockfish regression test is showing +65 Elo over Stockfish 7 which is absolutely massive. I would not expect Houdini to put up much of a fight in the final - such as was the case with Komodo. A good prediction for the score after 100 games would be something to the effect of 20-5-75 in favour of Stockfish. It won't be some two or three point difference.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:19 am
by kasinp
APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:
Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Jouni wrote:Robert has really improved engine. In CCRL, CEGT and IPON Houdini 4 was 119, 154 and 137 points below Komodo 10.1. So progress has been around 140 ELO! Also the qualification to superfinal was the greatest surprise in last ten years or ever!!
So Houdini 5 is as strong as Stockfish? What are the odds!
I don't know why people claim such stupid things. We watch one stage of the final of TCEC and think we can say just how much stronger Houdini development is relative to Houdini 4. 140 Elo is absolutely ludicrous. Houdini definitely looks stronger; we still need to wait for its eventual release before we can test the bad boy for ourselves to see the true gain. The new Stockfish regression test is showing +65 Elo over Stockfish 7 which is absolutely massive. I would not expect Houdini to put up much of a fight in the final - such as was the case with Komodo. A good prediction for the score after 100 games would be something to the effect of 20-5-75 in favour of Stockfish. It won't be some two or three point difference.
Your first two sentences make it difficult to accept the conclusion.

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:39 am
by michiguel
Jouni wrote:Robert has really improved engine. In CCRL, CEGT and IPON Houdini 4 was 119, 154 and 137 points below Komodo 10.1. So progress has been around 140 ELO! Also the qualification to superfinal was the greatest surprise in last ten years or ever!!
H qualified? wow, that is a surprise. Any help to see the standings? I cannot find them.

Miguel

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:18 am
by Eelco de Groot
They are currently playing an interim Rapid tournament, takes six weeks, according to Michael Scheidl on CSS? But they are offline again at the moment, so it takes a bit longer. The table was visible on the TCEC front page but is down. I think this was about the end standings: http://forum.computerschach.de/cgi-bin/ ... pid=103271

Re: Houdini 5 dev in TCEC

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:22 am
by Edsel Apostol
michiguel wrote:
Jouni wrote:Robert has really improved engine. In CCRL, CEGT and IPON Houdini 4 was 119, 154 and 137 points below Komodo 10.1. So progress has been around 140 ELO! Also the qualification to superfinal was the greatest surprise in last ten years or ever!!
H qualified? wow, that is a surprise. Any help to see the standings? I cannot find them.

Miguel

Code: Select all

N Engine           Rtng  Pts  Gm     SB St       Ho       Ko       Fi       An       Jo       Gu       Ry      

 1 Stockfish 160716 3224 39.0  56 1008.50 ········ ====1=1= ==1===== ===1=1=1 =11==1=1 1=1==11= 1=11==1= =1=1=1=1
 2 Houdini 200716   3176 35.5  56 907.75 ====0=0= ········ ======1= =======1 ==1=1=1= =11=11== 11==1=1= ==11=1=1
 3 Komodo 10.1      3230 34.5  56 885.25 ==0===== ======0= ········ 1======= =11101== 11====1= ===1111= 1===1=11
 4 Fire 5           3099 28.5  56 753.00 ===0=0=0 =======0 0======= ········ 1======= ==1====1 =====1== =1=1====
 5 Andscacs 0.872b  3106 23.5  56 624.50 =00==0=0 ==0=0=0= =00010== 0======= ········ ====0=== =1=11=0= 10==1===
 6 Jonny 8          3018 22.0  56 590.50 0=0==00= =00=00== 00====0= ==0====0 ====1=== ········ ==10=010 1=======
 7 Gull 3           3123 20.5  56 559.00 0=00==0= 00==0=0= ===0000= =====0== =0=00=1= ==01=101 ········ =====0==
 8 Rybka 4.1        3120 20.5  56 555.00 =0=0=0=0 ==00=0=0 0===0=00 =0=0==== 01==0=== 0======= =====1== ········