Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournaments

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JoshPettus
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by JoshPettus » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:03 am

That "Java" interface you may be referring is the old X Athena widget set, and yes, it looks like something that came out of 1991 when Linus wrote linux (because it did...). XBoard still supports it, as a last resort measure, but thank god Harm had it moved on to the newer GTK+ which is now default when building and hopefully is the main choice in the packages you come across.

Jesse Gersenson
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Jesse Gersenson » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:57 am

zd3nik wrote: I was doing the same with Fedora (64-bit OS, 64-bit wine, runing 32-bit Arena under wine no prob, because their port of wine included 32-bit support).

But the CentOS team provides a 64-bit "only" port of wine. So this issue is specific to CentOS. I may end up switching back to Fedora because of it too. But I like to try different linux distros for a few months at a time (even if they have a disappointing quirk or two).
Most package maintainers changed to a sharedWOW (64-bit/32-bit capable) build of wine around 2011/2013.

Basic steps to building your own is:
mkdir wine64
mkdir wine32
[uninstall wine]
[install wine dependencies]
[download wine]
[untar wine]
cd wine64
../wine-XXXXX/configure --enable-win64
make -j3 > make.log 2>&1
cd ../wine32
../wine-XXXXXXXXX/configure --with-wine64=../wine64
sudo make -j3 > make.log 2>&1
cd ../wine64
sudo make install

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hgm
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by hgm » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:47 am

zd3nik wrote:I've had bad luck with xboard in the past - crashes a lot, difficult to configure engines (due to non-native UCI support and weird file encoding issues in the config file), ...
Note that it should never be needed to touch any config files in recent versions of XBoard with an editor, and any attempt to do so a a big red flag that you are probably doing something badly wrong that is more likely to wreck things than achieve a desired result. The recommended way to configure UCI engines is through the Engine -> Engine #N Settings dialogs (and use the 'Polyglot Save' button there to make any changes persistent), and the recommended way to register engines is through the Engine -> Load 1st/2nd Engine dialogs (for non-Linux-compliant engines that do not register themselves as part of their install process).

Of course when you would want to run Windows binaries of engines you now explicitly have to invoke wine as part of the engine command, which is not needed if the GUI is already running under wine. Perhaps I should make it an XBoard option to automatically invoke wine, and add a checkbox for that in the Load Engine dialogs? :idea:

Also note that the hgm.nubati.net repository lags currently a bit behind, because I currently cannot push there do to a problem with the ssh keys that I have yet to solve. In the time being the best source is the GNU website http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/xboard.git . (Which is indeed a rather unusual situation, but it was updated recently with all commits from hgm.nubati.net for the purposeof the 4.9.0 release. I am too pressed for time getting my engines ready for the upcoming ICGA Olympiad to do anything about this until after the Olympiad.) There you can find the official 4.9.0 release tar ball.

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hgm
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by hgm » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:11 am

Daniel Mehrmann wrote:That's no reason using the word "us". You should use always "me" instead of that.
You think at least some people would think like you - but basicly. But that's not proven as long nobody else write something. Yes, there is a chance of course, but you claim it basicly and that's a point i don't like.
Thank you for your efforts to teach me to write proper English, but they seem a bit misguided here. 'Us' is the proper word to use, because the request was mainly for you to explain your reasons to all other readers. I myself am probably least interested in what you have to say in this respect, because I know very well already that you cannot come up with anything that would appeal to the average GUI user. And indeed, so far you did not provide any, but started side-tracking the discussion by criticising my usage of the English language...
Now you do a amazing claim that i would do a amazing claim, but i didn't. It is a suggestion for shawn and not more.
You said literally: "Cutechess-cli is so much better for tourneys like xboard". That sounds like a general claim to me, not an advice, or voicing of a personal preference.

And I think it is no exaggeration to call it 'amazing' that anyone would consider a command-line tool where he would have to improvise viewing methods himself as "so much better" than a full-featured GUI designed for the purpose, which works 'out of the box'...

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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Daniel Mehrmann » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:24 pm

hgm wrote: Thank you for your efforts to teach me to write proper English, but they seem a bit misguided here....
.

I don't teach you, i just wrote down what i don't like in your case.
I don't know any other user here who used "us" like you too. And if you think you do that for all other "readers" in this thread - Who allows you to speak for them ? Why do you think they think like yourself and they are interested in the same manner in questions and answers ?

I still think you do that because you think your the king of the hill. Probably you don't noticed that, but the kind of your writing style prove it.
I myself am probably least interested in what you have to say in this respect, because I know very well already that you cannot come up with anything that would appeal to the average GUI user. And indeed, so far you did not provide any, but started side-tracking the discussion by criticising my usage of the English language...
Now you do a amazing claim that i would do a amazing claim, but i didn't. It is a suggestion for shawn and not more.
You said literally: "Cutechess-cli is so much better for tourneys like xboard". That sounds like a general claim to me, not an advice, or voicing of a personal preference.[/quote]

Again and again: I don't need to prove or explain anything. It was just a suggestion and my personal experince with cutechess -cli and xboard. And my personal experince is much better with cutechess-cli then xboard.

Regards
Daniel

Rein Halbersma
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Rein Halbersma » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:37 pm

Daniel Mehrmann wrote: Again and again: I don't need to prove or explain anything. It was just a suggestion and my personal experince with cutechess -cli and xboard. And my personal experince is much better with cutechess-cli then xboard.

Regards
Daniel
I think HGM genuinely likes to know in which areas cutechess-cli offers a better user experience (whether subjective or objective) in order to be able to improve XBoard in those areas (in case he would agree with you). Is it more responsive, more configurable?

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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Daniel Mehrmann » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:52 pm

Rein Halbersma wrote:
Daniel Mehrmann wrote: Again and again: I don't need to prove or explain anything. It was just a suggestion and my personal experince with cutechess -cli and xboard. And my personal experince is much better with cutechess-cli then xboard.

Regards
Daniel
I think HGM genuinely likes to know in which areas cutechess-cli offers a better user experience (whether subjective or objective) in order to be able to improve XBoard in those areas (in case he would agree with you). Is it more responsive, more configurable?
You're right of course. :)

As i wrote before it's a alternative way to do the same things based on the question. Alternative way means in my view cutechess-cli and xboard are completely different and you can't compare them directly. But the result (tourney) is the same at the end and i prefer cutechess-cli in this case.
Cutechess-cli is an additional option and not a better option of course.

But it looks like HGM doesn't accept such additional options :roll:

Regards
Daniel

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hgm
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by hgm » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:11 pm

Indeed, if there is anything lacking in the user experience offered by XBoard, I would strive to improve that. Most of the improvement of XBoard in recent years that was not related to variant support is the direct result of such user feedback.

But getting to the heart of the matter is a two-edged sword: it can also be a great help to the readers to judge how seriously they should take the posted statements / criticism. And I think what followed made that abundantly clear to anyone, so there is no need to dwell on it any further.

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Guenther
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Guenther » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:13 pm

Daniel Mehrmann wrote:
...

As i wrote before it's a alternative way to do the same things based on the question. Alternative way means in my view cutechess-cli and xboard are completely different and you can't compare them directly. But the result (tourney) is the same at the end and i prefer cutechess-cli in this case.
Cutechess-cli is an additional option and not a better option of course.

But it looks like HGM doesn't accept such additional options :roll:

Regards
Daniel
Don't you think that sounds completely different now to what you said first?
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Cutechess-cli is so much better for tourneys like xboard.

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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Linux Chess GUI that's good for engine matches/tournamen

Post by Daniel Mehrmann » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Guenther wrote: Don't you think that sounds completely different now to what you said first?
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Cutechess-cli is so much better for tourneys like xboard.

No, because i wrote in this message:
This is an alternative way to do the same things.
Just take one statement without the message context makes the world easy of course! And again: It was my personal experince!

Regards
Daniel[/i]

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