
Now AlphaGo is probably 500+ ELO points stronger than AlphaGo of a year ago, no single hint of a loss.
Moderator: Ras
It is currently training on StarCraft 2. I'd say mastering StarCraft 2 would be a much tougher challenge than a game like Go where you only play one move at a time. If it masters StarCraft 2 I hope it tries its hands on a competitive card game such as Gwent.JJJ wrote:I hope Alphago will be trained to play Starcraft , the first one.
Laskos wrote:Wow, already a pro level Go program for pc, and remarkably it's free! People were saying maybe we'd have a pro level Go engine for pc in a year or two after this match, but it already happened! I wonder if any of the techniques used in these go programs would help with chess?lkaufman wrote:2 stones was based on "Master" online games in January. AlphaGo meanwhile must have improved, the advantage versus Ke Jie might be anywhere at 3-5 stones, or up to 1000 ELO points. It's very hard for me to guess, and I think very few know. It seems they are in different category, like pro versus amateur.Laskos wrote:This thing is probably 3 handicap stones stones stronger than Ke Jie. Cannot wait for it or something even remotely similar like Zen to appear for home PC.[/quotewhereagles wrote:mankind's last hope is played out in just a few hours![]()
go Ke Jie!
Michael Redmond (9 dan Pro) thought two stones would be fair. Two stone handicap should produce about a 20 point win between even players, so if the final score of these even games would have been about 20 points plus for AlphaGo if AlphaGo were score-maximizing rather than win% maximizing, two stones should be even. That sounds about right to me, but who knows?
I yesterday discovered that Gian-Carlo Pascutto, author of Deep Sjeng, has made a top Go program, free, called Leela. The previous iteration is already no.8 on KGS, and the new one is *very* strong.
https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html
It is professional level program, the strongest available for public, free or commercial. I re-analyzed the three Ke Jia games, all were lost right after the opening, starting with moves 40-60:
They seem to indicate a huge strength difference. The third game went nasty for Ke Jie, AlphaGo was not content winning marginally, it thrashed Ke Jie.
As someone who plays SCII I'm looking forward to this. Is there any hint of public availability or if it will challenge the best players?Leto wrote:It is currently training on StarCraft 2. I'd say mastering StarCraft 2 would be a much tougher challenge than a game like Go where you only play one move at a time. If it masters StarCraft 2 I hope it tries its hands on a competitive card game such as Gwent.JJJ wrote:I hope Alphago will be trained to play Starcraft , the first one.
If it is allowed to control every unit individually, it will likely crush the best players. The only hope for humans at that point is to prevent scouting and execute an attack with units which largely counter whatever the AI is building.As someone who plays SCII I'm looking forward to this. Is there any hint of public availability or if it will challenge the best players?
While that may be a theoretical concern, do note that an API has been available for StarCraft: Brood War that accomplishes much the same thing for around 7 years now, receiving some academic attention. Despite very early on achieving superhuman feats of micromanagement (many videos on YouTube boasting 40K actions per minute), the level of these AIs still hovers around that of a very mediocre amateur player. At some point they may find a better way to bring that power to bear, but it hasn't happened yet.jhellis3 wrote:If it is allowed to control every unit individually, it will likely crush the best players. The only hope for humans at that point is to prevent scouting and execute an attack with units which largely counter whatever the AI is building.As someone who plays SCII I'm looking forward to this. Is there any hint of public availability or if it will challenge the best players?
Once the AI gets vision though.... it is over. The power of perfectly tracking all of your opponents spent & remaining resources, unit composition, unit availability, and unit costs, and perfect timings on unit/upgrade availability means AI can always build (counter) perfectly and will always micro perfectly. Thus the game will essentially end up being a vision war with vision denial being a necessary but not sufficient condition for a human victory.
Thanks for letting us know about this, I thought Leela development had stopped.lkaufman wrote:Wow, already a pro level Go program for pc, and remarkably it's free! People were saying maybe we'd have a pro level Go engine for pc in a year or two after this match, but it already happened! I wonder if any of the techniques used in these go programs would help with chess?Laskos wrote: I yesterday discovered that Gian-Carlo Pascutto, author of Deep Sjeng, has made a top Go program, free, called Leela. The previous iteration is already no.8 on KGS, and the new one is *very* strong.
https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html
It is professional level program, the strongest available for public, free or commercial.