To MODERATORS: Please STOP moving genuine tournaments!

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

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Rebel
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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by Rebel » Thu May 26, 2016 10:39 am

JVMerlino wrote: 4) We are, however, sensitive to another stated reason that can be summarized as "posts about tournaments that require human participation would get lost in the midst of other frequently updated threads". Therefore, we are offering to add a sticky to any applicable topic posted in the T&M forum, as long as the OP requests it (either within the original post or via private message to the moderators) AND specifies a reasonable date after which the sticky will be removed.
What about if a trusted member offers to maintain a tournament calender put as sticky in the main or T&M forum.

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by hgm » Thu May 26, 2016 10:51 am

Graham Banks wrote:
hgm wrote:You are still trying to justify pointless hurting of others. Why?
I'm just pointing out what anybody can read, nothing else.
That seems too easy a way of weasling out. You could also have posted that this board is "Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games", which is also something that everyone can read. But the fact that you did refer to the description of the forum sections strongly suggests that this was not intended as a random off-topic remark, but had some bearing on the discussion. And in particular that you think that these descriptions can be a jusification for some people to hurt others, and hurt computer Chess in general.

If that was not your intention, you better correct it in public.

Do you think such discriptions can justify the act of hurting others? (A simple yes or no would do.)
Last edited by hgm on Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by Rebel » Thu May 26, 2016 10:56 am

HGM, I assume this was directed at Graham?

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by hgm » Thu May 26, 2016 11:01 am

Indeed, our postings crossed. I now edited in a quote from Graham's post to reflect that.

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by hgm » Thu May 26, 2016 12:02 pm

Rebel wrote:What about if a trusted member offers to maintain a tournament calender put as sticky in the main or T&M forum.
Well, apart from the technical problem that the board software might only distinguish the categories guest / member / moderator / admin, so that either everyone could post there or only moderators, sticky threats do have some drawbacks.

For one, they do not seem to solve any problem (not even imagined ones), as they would on the average be visible far more often than the occasional announcement of a participation event (which would be quickly buried after the event is over, after which it would take months before a new one is announced.)

Another disadvantage is that you cannot see from the title when there are new announcements, alnd also likely not from the name of the latest poster (as this would always be the 'trusted person', (a moderator)). So you could only recognize from the date if there is something new in it, and then you would still have no idea what was is inside it.

It also makes it pretty cumbersome for organizers to get something there. They would become dependent on the trusted person, who might be on holiday or otherwise busy.

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by Rebel » Thu May 26, 2016 1:57 pm

Correct, it's not perfect.

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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by Graham Banks » Thu May 26, 2016 7:59 pm

hgm wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
hgm wrote:You are still trying to justify pointless hurting of others. Why?
I'm just pointing out what anybody can read, nothing else.
That seems too easy a way of weasling out. You could also have posted that this board is "Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games", which is also something that everyone can read. But the fact that you did refer to the description of the forum sections strongly suggests that this was not intended as a random off-topic remark, but had some bearing on the discussion. And in particular that you think that these descriptions can be a jusification for some people to hurt others, and hurt computer Chess in general.

If that was not your intention, you better correct it in public.

Do you think such discriptions can justify the act of hurting others? (A simple yes or no would do.)
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Nobody here has the intention of hurting computer chess. That's just ridiculous.

Although the moderators didn't move such threads in the several terms when I was a moderator, stickying such threads in the Tournaments subforum is probably the correct thing to do.
My email addresses:
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Re: Statement from the Moderation Team

Post by hgm » Thu May 26, 2016 8:28 pm

The people that actually do organize these events have just told us here it does hurt their events.

Are you calling them liars?
Graham Banks wrote: stickying such threads in the Tournaments subforum is probably the correct thing to do.
The affected people (organizers and participants) have all told here this does not satisfy their needs, and will cause them a lot of hardship.

So you consider inflicting hardship on people "the correct thing to do"? Why? I never took you for a sadistic person... Why is it a correct thing to do to make other people suffer?

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Re: To MODERATORS: Please CONTINUE moving tournaments!

Post by bob » Thu May 26, 2016 11:06 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote: WCCC/WMCCC is a European championship.
When did komodo become a European engine?
Sounds like someone who would like an important sounding sticker on his box.

There is an exception to every rule. A cameo by Komodo fits that bill.

Here are the most recent entrants:

Code: Select all

1	Jonny	flag DEU	2,400 cores, 2,376 threads, AMD x86-64, 2.8 GHz	7.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Komodo	flag USA	24 cores, 24 threads, Intel i7	6.5	8	Second Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	28 threads, Intel Xeon E5-2697, 2.8 GHz	5.0	8	Third Place
4	Protector	flag DEU	8 cores, 15 threads, Intel i7 5690x, 4 GHz	5.0	8	
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel i7	4.5	8	
6	Ginkgo	flag DEU	6 cores, 6 threads, Intel i5	4.0	8	
7	The Baron	flag NLD	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel E5-2687w, 3.1 GHz	3.0	8	
8	Maverick	flag USA	1 thread, Intel i7, 2.8 GHz	1.0	8	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU	4 cores, 7 threads, Intel i7	0.0	8	
1	Junior	flag ISR	Dual 12 core Intel Xenon I5 2.7 GHz	7.5	10	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Jonny	flag DEU	2400 core AMD 2.8 GHz	7.0	10	Second Place
3	Pandix	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	5.5	10	Third Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	16 core Intel Xenon E5 3.1 GHz	5.5	10	Third Place
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 core Intel 3.1 GHz	4.5	10	
6	Merlin (hu)	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	0.0	10	
1	Junior	flag ISR	16 core i7 Sandybridge	6.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Shredder	flag DEU		5.5	8	Second Place
2	Hiarcs	flag GBR	12 core i7 Nehalem	5.5	8	Second Place
4	Pandix	flag HUN		5.0	8	
4	Jonny	flag DEU	800 core cluster	5.0	8	
6	The Baron	flag NLD	8 core i7 Nehalem	4.5	8	
7	Booot	flag UKR		3.0	8	
8	Rookie 3.4	flag NLD		1.5	8	
9	Woodpusher 1997	flag GBR		0.0	8	
1	Rybka	flag USA	Intel Cluster run by Lukas Cimiotti	8.0	9	Disqualified
2	Rondo	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Thinker	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
4	Shredder	flag DEU		6.0	9	Third Place
5	Jonny	flag DEU	Cluster	5.5	9	
6	Pandix Breakthrough	flag HUN	loan hardware	5.0	9	
7	Deep Junior	flag ISR		4.0	9	
8	Darmenios	flag POL		2.0	9	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU		1.0	9	
10	Hector for Chess	flag HUN		0.5	9	
Boiled down to individual engines:
Woodpusher
Thinker
The
Shredder
Rybka
Rookie
Rondo
Protector
Pandix
Merlin
Maverick
Komodo
Junior
Jonny
Hiarcs
Hector
Ginkgo
Fridolin
Darmenios
Booot

Considering the CCRL 40/40 measurements, these are the top 20 engines:
Texel
Strelka
Stockfish
Rybka
Protector
NirvanaChess
Naum
Komodo
Houdini
Hannibal
Gull
Fritz
Fizbo
Fire
Equinox
Critter
Chiron
Bouquet
BlackMamba
Andscacs
Alfil

And what is missing from the ICGA list?
Answer: Most of the programs from the second list.
And why don't they participate?
Because the contest is meaningless unless you want a fancy, false sticker on your box.
You should stop with the insulting crap. Do you realize how many clones are on your "preferred list"?

Strelka, Houdini and fire stand out. There are probably others. This is why WE (the ICGA membership / participants) choose who gets to enter.

If you don't like the ICGA, nobody has forced you to join. But you sound like a bitter complainer and nothing else with these kinds of posts. Particularly when you are clueless about which are original and which are not.

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Re: To MODERATORS: Please CONTINUE moving tournaments!

Post by Dann Corbit » Thu May 26, 2016 11:19 pm

bob wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote: WCCC/WMCCC is a European championship.
When did komodo become a European engine?
Sounds like someone who would like an important sounding sticker on his box.

There is an exception to every rule. A cameo by Komodo fits that bill.

Here are the most recent entrants:

Code: Select all

1	Jonny	flag DEU	2,400 cores, 2,376 threads, AMD x86-64, 2.8 GHz	7.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Komodo	flag USA	24 cores, 24 threads, Intel i7	6.5	8	Second Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	28 threads, Intel Xeon E5-2697, 2.8 GHz	5.0	8	Third Place
4	Protector	flag DEU	8 cores, 15 threads, Intel i7 5690x, 4 GHz	5.0	8	
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel i7	4.5	8	
6	Ginkgo	flag DEU	6 cores, 6 threads, Intel i5	4.0	8	
7	The Baron	flag NLD	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel E5-2687w, 3.1 GHz	3.0	8	
8	Maverick	flag USA	1 thread, Intel i7, 2.8 GHz	1.0	8	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU	4 cores, 7 threads, Intel i7	0.0	8	
1	Junior	flag ISR	Dual 12 core Intel Xenon I5 2.7 GHz	7.5	10	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Jonny	flag DEU	2400 core AMD 2.8 GHz	7.0	10	Second Place
3	Pandix	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	5.5	10	Third Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	16 core Intel Xenon E5 3.1 GHz	5.5	10	Third Place
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 core Intel 3.1 GHz	4.5	10	
6	Merlin (hu)	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	0.0	10	
1	Junior	flag ISR	16 core i7 Sandybridge	6.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Shredder	flag DEU		5.5	8	Second Place
2	Hiarcs	flag GBR	12 core i7 Nehalem	5.5	8	Second Place
4	Pandix	flag HUN		5.0	8	
4	Jonny	flag DEU	800 core cluster	5.0	8	
6	The Baron	flag NLD	8 core i7 Nehalem	4.5	8	
7	Booot	flag UKR		3.0	8	
8	Rookie 3.4	flag NLD		1.5	8	
9	Woodpusher 1997	flag GBR		0.0	8	
1	Rybka	flag USA	Intel Cluster run by Lukas Cimiotti	8.0	9	Disqualified
2	Rondo	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Thinker	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
4	Shredder	flag DEU		6.0	9	Third Place
5	Jonny	flag DEU	Cluster	5.5	9	
6	Pandix Breakthrough	flag HUN	loan hardware	5.0	9	
7	Deep Junior	flag ISR		4.0	9	
8	Darmenios	flag POL		2.0	9	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU		1.0	9	
10	Hector for Chess	flag HUN		0.5	9	
Boiled down to individual engines:
Woodpusher
Thinker
The
Shredder
Rybka
Rookie
Rondo
Protector
Pandix
Merlin
Maverick
Komodo
Junior
Jonny
Hiarcs
Hector
Ginkgo
Fridolin
Darmenios
Booot

Considering the CCRL 40/40 measurements, these are the top 20 engines:
Texel
Strelka
Stockfish
Rybka
Protector
NirvanaChess
Naum
Komodo
Houdini
Hannibal
Gull
Fritz
Fizbo
Fire
Equinox
Critter
Chiron
Bouquet
BlackMamba
Andscacs
Alfil

And what is missing from the ICGA list?
Answer: Most of the programs from the second list.
And why don't they participate?
Because the contest is meaningless unless you want a fancy, false sticker on your box.
You should stop with the insulting crap. Do you realize how many clones are on your "preferred list"?

Strelka, Houdini and fire stand out. There are probably others. This is why WE (the ICGA membership / participants) choose who gets to enter.

If you don't like the ICGA, nobody has forced you to join. But you sound like a bitter complainer and nothing else with these kinds of posts. Particularly when you are clueless about which are original and which are not.
What have I said that is insulting?

Houdini and Fire are well accepted by the community at large.

But if we remove those three strong engines, my points all stand, completely unaltered.

A FIDE chess championship without :

Code: Select all

Rank	Name	Title	Country	Rating	Games	B-Year
 1	 Carlsen, Magnus	 g	 NOR	 2851	 0	 1990
 2	 Caruana, Fabiano	 g	 USA	 2804	 11	 1992
 3	 Kramnik, Vladimir	 g	 RUS	 2801	 0	 1975
 4	 Giri, Anish	 g	 NED	 2790	 0	 1994
 5	 Vachier-Lagrave, Maxime	 g	 FRA	 2788	 0	 1990
 6	 Nakamura, Hikaru	 g	 USA	 2787	 11	 1987
 7	 Aronian, Levon	 g	 ARM	 2784	 0	 1982
 8	 Karjakin, Sergey	 g	 RUS	 2779	 0	 1990
 9	 Ding, Liren	 g	 CHN	 2778	 4	 1992
 10	 So, Wesley	 g	 USA	 2775	 11	 1993
 11	 Anand, Viswanathan	 g	 IND	 2770	 0	 1969
 12	 Eljanov, Pavel	 g	 UKR	 2765	 0	 1983
 13	 Harikrishna, P.	 g	 IND	 2763	 0	 1986
 14	 Svidler, Peter	 g	 RUS	 2762	 0	 1976
 15	 Li, Chao b	 g	 CHN	 2756	 4	 1989
 16	 Topalov, Veselin	 g	 BUL	 2754	 0	 1975
 17	 Grischuk, Alexander	 g	 RUS	 2752	 0	 1983
 18	 Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar	 g	 AZE	 2748	 4	 1985
 19	 Gelfand, Boris	 g	 ISR	 2740	 0	 1968
 20	 Yu, Yangyi	 g	 CHN	 2737	 3	 1994
would hardly be a championship.
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