To MODERATORS: Please STOP moving genuine tournaments!

[mclane]

Open tournaments need mass recognize of the computerchess scene,
By putting these tournaments into the tournament forum that is read by only a smaller group of people is like killing yourself.

Events need participants AND public audience watching it.

This all reminds me on a passage of hitchhikers guide to the galaxy where you had to complain on a very far foreign planet, and if you do not complain about the destruction of your house/planet....

[Harvey Williamson]

WCCC/WMCCC is a European championship.

When did komodo become a European engine?

[Peter Berger]

I think all this is easy enough to understand and judge if you think about how people who are interested in computerchess *actually* *use* this board.

The "Programmer's forum" - easy enough to understand. This is about chess programming, coding and the like. If you have nothing substantial to add there, please keep silent in the discussions. Programmers should have a room there for most serious, strange, technical topics.

The "tournament room" ( or whatever it is named currently) - place your random engine list or basement tournament result there. I was happy when this one was created. There is a lot of interest in basement tournaments and rating lists, but they create *a lot* of noise for people not interested, so give this its own room, very good idea.

This leaves a room for "General topics" that can be about computer chess things not specifically geek programming stuff, and not the result of the latest Graham Banks ( sorry, I put you here, just because I am sure you will read this the right way, contrary to your collegues, whom I respect just as well) tournament either,

but just everything else. Which would be all the stuff that interests *me* *personally* - so yes, I would love to have all the relevant stuff that is not about coding and programming and not about basement tourneys there .

Major real life computerchess tournaments would clearly meet this criterium and be ontopic in the general room for me. There aren't many of them, and they are of interest. If John Lee started another engine tournament and IT IS STILL ONGOING - sorry, there should be a room for that, but for me this is spam.

So can we please just get back to how things were sorted here for years?

TIA,
Peter

[JVMerlino]

I don't know what is wrong with moderation recently, but please stop moving genuine tournaments like Leiden, IGT and ACCA to the Tournaments and Matches section. The Tournaments and Matches section is really for home tournaments and people like me are not interested in home tournaments but are absolutely interested in genuine tournaments.

Thank you for your understanding
Torsten

In this thread there has been some discussion about where posts about tournaments belong, and whether or not moderators should or should not move such posts to the Tournaments and Matches (T&M) forum if they are posted elsewhere. The moderators have also discussed this topic amongst ourselves and we are in absolute agreement about the following:

1) We believe that all posts about tournaments and matches, whether they are "genuine" (whatever that means) or not, whether they are about announcements or results, whether they involve any humans other than the TD/tester or not, belong in the T&M forum. We will henceforth be moving all such posts to that forum.
2) We have been somewhat inconsistent about our application of this action in the past and apologize for any confusion or erroneous expectation this has caused.
3) We feel that one of the stated reasons that "genuine" tournaments do not belong in the T&M forum (typically summarized as "nobody goes there") is invalid. Community members will go to whatever forums that interest them. We, as moderators, just need to ensure that people can consistently find what they want, where they expect it to be.
4) We are, however, sensitive to another stated reason that can be summarized as "posts about tournaments that require human participation would get lost in the midst of other frequently updated threads". Therefore, we are offering to add a sticky to any applicable topic posted in the T&M forum, as long as the OP requests it (either within the original post or via private message to the moderators) AND specifies a reasonable date after which the sticky will be removed.

We thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

Your Moderation Team

[bob]

I don't know what is wrong with moderation recently, but please stop moving genuine tournaments like Leiden, IGT and ACCA to the Tournaments and Matches section. The Tournaments and Matches section is really for home tournaments and people like me are not interested in home tournaments but are absolutely interested in genuine tournaments.

Thank you for your understanding
Torsten

In this thread there has been some discussion about where posts about tournaments belong, and whether or not moderators should or should not move such posts to the Tournaments and Matches (T&M) forum if they are posted elsewhere. The moderators have also discussed this topic amongst ourselves and we are in absolute agreement about the following:

1) We believe that all posts about tournaments and matches, whether they are "genuine" (whatever that means) or not, whether they are about announcements or results, whether they involve any humans other than the TD/tester or not, belong in the T&M forum. We will henceforth be moving all such posts to that forum.
2) We have been somewhat inconsistent about our application of this action in the past and apologize for any confusion or erroneous expectation this has caused.
3) We feel that one of the stated reasons that "genuine" tournaments do not belong in the T&M forum (typically summarized as "nobody goes there") is invalid. Community members will go to whatever forums that interest them. We, as moderators, just need to ensure that people can consistently find what they want, where they expect it to be.
4) We are, however, sensitive to another stated reason that can be summarized as "posts about tournaments that require human participation would get lost in the midst of other frequently updated threads". Therefore, we are offering to add a sticky to any applicable topic posted in the T&M forum, as long as the OP requests it (either within the original post or via private message to the moderators) AND specifies a reasonable date after which the sticky will be removed.

We thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

Your Moderation Team

John, you guys can do whatever you want. However this is in direct contradiction to the original reason the tournament sub-forum was created. Those events generate a LOT of posts daily as results are supplied, sometimes game by game. This buries the less frequent topics way down in the forum where the casual visitor will NOT see them.

I don't see why we have this sudden change in forum operation, with zero prior discussion about making this change. Again, I am the one that suggested creating the tournament forum, specifically to take the heavy-volume message traffic those tournaments produce and get it out of the general forum. At that time we also decided to separate the programming topics as well since they are primarily of interest to authors, leaving the general forum for everything else. Which USED to include everything from Deep Blue vs Kasparov, to ICGA events, to CCT, etc. Now it would seem that ALL of that seems to be relegated to a place that was never intended.

Primary question is "why?"

It would seem you guys are rewriting the rules without any regard to why things were done (we did have a poll back then and a discussion about what would go where.)

[kgburcham]

Primary question is "why?"

Why not? are we talking about one extra click with the mouse?

if anyone is interested in the programming forum they can find it.

tournaments forum? they can find it.

it is amazing how someone thinks one tournament deserves something different than another.

if no one goes there, they didn't care about it.

[bob]

Primary question is "why?"

Why not? are we talking about one extra click with the mouse?

if anyone is interested in the programming forum they can find it.

tournaments forum? they can find it.

it is amazing how someone thinks one tournament deserves something different than another.

if no one goes there, they didn't care about it.

You miss the point. Go to the tournament forum and find something from last week. Or even Monday of this week. The volume is high there and unless you are interested in skimming over all the various topics to see if there is anything interesting.

That was THE reason we voted to do it like we have been doing it since the forum was split into pieces. Except suddenly we are being faced with a very draconian interpretation of what goes where.

There ARE differences between tournaments where programmers play or attend, vs tournaments where someone just collects a group of engines and lets them go at it. A BIG difference. Perhaps one needs to be a programmer to understand. Or a general interest person that likes computer chess events where there are online discussions while games get played...

[bnemias]

Some of us aren't chiming in because: 1) we aren't the owner of the tournament that is getting its announcement repeatedly moved, and 2) hgm has already raised the same points we would, so we aren't posting content-less "me too" posts. Maybe we should.

Exactly.

I have a preference to the extent of casting a vote, but beyond that, I don't care a whole lot as long as the thread title is reflective of its content.

[Dann Corbit]

WCCC/WMCCC is a European championship.

When did komodo become a European engine?

Sounds like someone who would like an important sounding sticker on his box.

There is an exception to every rule. A cameo by Komodo fits that bill.

Here are the most recent entrants:

Code: Select all

1	Jonny	flag DEU	2,400 cores, 2,376 threads, AMD x86-64, 2.8 GHz	7.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Komodo	flag USA	24 cores, 24 threads, Intel i7	6.5	8	Second Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	28 threads, Intel Xeon E5-2697, 2.8 GHz	5.0	8	Third Place
4	Protector	flag DEU	8 cores, 15 threads, Intel i7 5690x, 4 GHz	5.0	8	
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel i7	4.5	8	
6	Ginkgo	flag DEU	6 cores, 6 threads, Intel i5	4.0	8	
7	The Baron	flag NLD	16 cores, 16 threads, Intel E5-2687w, 3.1 GHz	3.0	8	
8	Maverick	flag USA	1 thread, Intel i7, 2.8 GHz	1.0	8	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU	4 cores, 7 threads, Intel i7	0.0	8	
1	Junior	flag ISR	Dual 12 core Intel Xenon I5 2.7 GHz	7.5	10	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Jonny	flag DEU	2400 core AMD 2.8 GHz	7.0	10	Second Place
3	Pandix	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	5.5	10	Third Place
3	Hiarcs	flag GBR	16 core Intel Xenon E5 3.1 GHz	5.5	10	Third Place
5	Shredder	flag DEU	16 core Intel 3.1 GHz	4.5	10	
6	Merlin (hu)	flag HUN	I7-3740, 2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM	0.0	10	
1	Junior	flag ISR	16 core i7 Sandybridge	6.0	8	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Shredder	flag DEU		5.5	8	Second Place
2	Hiarcs	flag GBR	12 core i7 Nehalem	5.5	8	Second Place
4	Pandix	flag HUN		5.0	8	
4	Jonny	flag DEU	800 core cluster	5.0	8	
6	The Baron	flag NLD	8 core i7 Nehalem	4.5	8	
7	Booot	flag UKR		3.0	8	
8	Rookie 3.4	flag NLD		1.5	8	
9	Woodpusher 1997	flag GBR		0.0	8	
1	Rybka	flag USA	Intel Cluster run by Lukas Cimiotti	8.0	9	Disqualified
2	Rondo	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Thinker	flag USA		6.5	9	World Computer Chess Champion
4	Shredder	flag DEU		6.0	9	Third Place
5	Jonny	flag DEU	Cluster	5.5	9	
6	Pandix Breakthrough	flag HUN	loan hardware	5.0	9	
7	Deep Junior	flag ISR		4.0	9	
8	Darmenios	flag POL		2.0	9	
9	Fridolin	flag DEU		1.0	9	
10	Hector for Chess	flag HUN		0.5	9	

Boiled down to individual engines:
Woodpusher
Thinker
The
Shredder
Rybka
Rookie
Rondo
Protector
Pandix
Merlin
Maverick
Komodo
Junior
Jonny
Hiarcs
Hector
Ginkgo
Fridolin
Darmenios
Booot

Considering the CCRL 40/40 measurements, these are the top 20 engines:
Texel
Strelka
Stockfish
Rybka
Protector
NirvanaChess
Naum
Komodo
Houdini
Hannibal
Gull
Fritz
Fizbo
Fire
Equinox
Critter
Chiron
Bouquet
BlackMamba
Andscacs
Alfil

And what is missing from the ICGA list?
Answer: Most of the programs from the second list.
And why don't they participate?
Because the contest is meaningless unless you want a fancy, false sticker on your box.

[Henk]

Maybe everyone has to pay for posting a message. For each post is wasting time of the readers that are not interested at all.

Perhaps everyone is allowed to post five messages per week for free.

Or maybe number of characters are important too. For long messages are wasting more time.