Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

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zd3nik
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:34 am
Location: United States

Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by zd3nik »

[d] r1b2rk1/pp3pp1/2n4p/q2pPp1Q/2pP4/P1P2N2/2PB1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 14

Stockfish likes Bxh6 better than all the other engines I have installed. But even after thinking for over 3 minutes it only give it an eval of just over 100 cp (single thread on i5 laptop)

Is there a better way to exploit blacks seemingly suicidal position?
jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by jhellis3 »

[d] r1b2rk1/pp3pp1/2n4p/q2pPp1Q/2pP4/P1P2N2/2PB1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 14

It is winning, and winning should be good enough...

[pgn]
[FEN "r1b2rk1/pp3pp1/2n4p/q2pPp1Q/2pP4/P1P2N2/2PB1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 14"]

14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.Qxh6 f4 16.Ng5 Bf5 17.g4 Bxc2 18.Rac1 Be4 19.Rfe1 Bd3 20.
Red1 Bg6 21.e6 Ne7 22.exf7+ Rxf7 23.Re1 Qxa3 24.Nxf7 Bxf7 25.Rb1 Ng6 26.
Re6 Qf8 27.Rxg6+ Bxg6 28.Qxg6+ Qg7 29.Qxg7+ Kxg7 30.Rxb7+ Kf6 31.Kg2 Kg5
32.h3 a5 33.Rb6 a4 34.Rd6 Ra5 35.Kf3 Rb5 *
[/pgn]
User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Shawn:
zd3nik wrote:[d] r1b2rk1/pp3pp1/2n4p/q2pPp1Q/2pP4/P1P2N2/2PB1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 14

Stockfish likes Bxh6 better than all the other engines I have installed. But even after thinking for over 3 minutes it only give it an eval of just over 100 cp (single thread on i5 laptop)

Is there a better way to exploit blacks seemingly suicidal position?
Analysis by Houdini 3 w32 Tactical Mode (two cores) in an Intel Pentium D930 (3 GHz), using 512 MB of hash, running under Arena 2.0.1 GUI:

Code: Select all

  4/13	00:00	       1.580	36.000	+0,14	Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Nf3h4 Qc7d7
  5/13	00:00	       2.550	54.000	-0,04	Rf1b1 Qa5a4 Rb1b2 b7b6 Bd2e3 Bc8e6
  5/13	00:00	       2.971	61.000	-0,01	a3a4 Bc8e6 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Rb1b5 b7b6
  6/13	00:00	       5.230	79.000	+0,02	a3a4 Bc8e6 Ra1b1 b7b6 Rb1a1 f5f4
  7/13	00:00	       7.300	102.000	-0,03	a3a4 Bc8e6 Ra1b1 b7b6 Rb1a1 f5f4 h2h3
  7/19+	00:00	      11.643	147.000	+0,10	Qh5h3
  7/19	00:00	      12.472	148.000	-0,03	a3a4 Bc8e6 Ra1b1 b7b6 Rb1a1 f5f4 h2h3
  7/19	00:00	      19.537	203.000	 0,00	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Qf4h4+ Kh7g7 Qh4g3+ Kg7h8 Qg3h4+ Kh8g7 Qh4g3+
  7/19	00:00	      20.094	195.000	+0,09	Qh5h4 Bc8e6 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 h2h3 b7b5 Qg3f4
  8/19	00:00	      22.152	208.000	+0,06	Qh5h4 Bc8e6 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4 b7b6
  8/19	00:00	      36.944	282.000	+0,09	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8c8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4
  9/19	00:00	      39.287	284.000	+0,09	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8c8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4
 10/23	00:00	      58.546	359.000	+0,07	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8c8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4 b7b6
 11/33	00:00	     203.561	598.000	+0,09	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8c8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 h2h3 Rf8e8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4
 12/33	00:01	     461.130	749.000	+0,08	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8b8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 h2h3 Rf8e8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4 b7b6
 13/33	00:01	     824.525	821.000	+0,07	a3a4 Bc8e6 Qh5h4 Ra8b8 Qh4g3 Kg8h8 h2h3 Rf8e8 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Qg3f4 b7b6 Rb1e1 Kh8g8
 14/33+	00:02	   1.549.231	899.000	+0,14	a3a4
 14/35	00:02	   2.044.920	923.000	+0,08	a3a4 Nc6e7 Rf1b1 Qa5c7 Bd2c1 Bc8e6 Bc1a3 f5f4 Ba3d6 Qc7d7 h2h3 Ra8e8 Rb1b5 b7b6 Ra1b1
 15/44	00:07	   6.818.792	1.010.000	+0,08	a3a4 Nc6e7 Rf1b1 Qa5a6 Bd2c1 Rf8e8 a4a5 Bc8d7 Nf3h4 Qa6c6 Bc1a3 f5f4 Nh4f3 Ne7g6 Ba3d6 Ra8d8
 15/44+	00:13	  13.689.237	1.039.000	+0,16	Bd2xh6
 15/51-	00:14	  14.596.564	1.042.000	 0,00	Bd2xh6 g7xh6
 15/51	00:14	  14.597.265	1.041.000	+0,08	a3a4 Nc6e7 Rf1b1 Qa5a6 Bd2c1 Rf8e8 a4a5 Bc8d7 Nf3h4 Qa6c6 Bc1a3 f5f4 Nh4f3 Ne7g6 Ba3d6 Ra8d8
 16/51	00:17	  17.513.216	1.037.000	+0,03	a3a4 Nc6e7 Rf1b1 Qa5a6 Bd2c1 Rf8e8 a4a5 Bc8d7 Nf3h4 Qa6c6 Bc1a3 f5f4 Nh4f3 Ne7g6 Ba3d6 Ra8d8 h2h3
 16/51+	00:25	  26.714.173	1.054.000	+0,16	Bd2xh6
 16/51-	00:29	  30.268.827	1.055.000	 0,00	Bd2xh6 g7xh6
 16/51	00:29	  30.270.119	1.055.000	+0,03	a3a4 Nc6e7 Rf1b1 Qa5a6 Bd2c1 Rf8e8 a4a5 Bc8d7 Nf3h4 Qa6c6 Bc1a3 f5f4 Nh4f3 Ne7g6 Ba3d6 Ra8d8 h2h3
 17/51+	00:33	  34.241.899	1.052.000	+0,11	a3a4
 17/51	00:33	  34.929.620	1.052.000	+0,09	a3a4 Nc6e7 Qh5h4 Ne7g6 Qh4g3 f5f4 Bd2xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1c1 Ng6xf4 Qg3xf4 Bc8d7 Ra1a2 Qc3a5 Rc1b1 b7b5 e5e6 f7xe6 Qf4d6 Ra8d8 Nf3e5 Bd7c8 Qd6e7
 17/51+	00:50	  53.138.115	1.058.000	+0,26	Bd2xh6
other best move - reduce depth to 14
 14/54	00:54	  56.221.314	1.053.000	+0,30	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 Bc8d7 Rf1e1 Qc3a5 Re1b1 b7b6 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Qf4g3 Bd7f5 Ng5e6+ Bf5g6 Ne6xf8 Ra8xf8 c2c3 Nc6e7 Rb1c1 Qa5a4 Qg3f4 Qa4b3 Ra2a1 Qb3b2 h2h4
 15/54-	00:54	  56.956.890	1.052.000	+0,22	Bd2xh6 g7xh6
 15/54	00:55	  57.382.309	1.051.000	+0,15	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 a7a6 Rf1b1 Kh7g8 h2h3 Ra8b8 h3h4 Qc3a5 h4h5 Qa5d8 h5h6 Kg8h8 c2c3 Qd8e7 Nf3g5 b7b5 a3a4 b5b4
 16/54+	00:55	  57.632.788	1.051.000	+0,22	Bd2xh6
 16/54	00:56	  58.779.341	1.051.000	+0,36	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 Bc8e6 Rf1e1 Qc3a5 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Re1b1 b7b6 Qf4g3 Be6f5 Ng5e6+ Bf5g6 Ne6xf8 Ra8xf8 c2c3 Nc6e7 Rb1c1 Qa5a4 Rc1e1 Qa4d7 Qg3f4 Bg6e4 f2f3 Be4d3
 17/60+	01:03	  66.243.805	1.048.000	+0,43	Bd2xh6
 17/60-	01:05	  67.682.416	1.048.000	+0,28	Bd2xh6 g7xh6
 17/60+	01:09	  71.931.717	1.046.000	+0,59	Bd2xh6
 17/60	01:12	  75.399.606	1.045.000	+0,60	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 Bc8e6 Rf1e1 Qc3a5 Re1e3 Rf8g8 Nf3g5+ Rg8xg5 Qf4xg5 Ra8g8 Qg5h5+ Kh7g7 c2c3 Kg7f8 Ra2a1 Qa5b6 Qh5e2 Be6g4 Qe2c2 Qb6b3 Qc2d2 Nc6e7 h2h3 Bg4f5 Re3f3
 18/60+	01:39	 104.008.551	1.047.000	+0,69	Bd2xh6
 18/60	01:43	 107.997.301	1.051.000	+0,57	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 Bc8e6 Rf1e1 Qc3a5 Re1e3 Rf8g8 Nf3g5+ Rg8xg5 Qf4xg5 Ra8g8 Qg5h5+ Kh7g7 c2c3 Kg7f8 Ra2a1 Qa5b6 Re3g3 Rg8xg3 f2xg3 Kf8e8 Qh5d1 Be6f5 Qd1d2 Bf5d3 Kg1h1 Qb6a5 Qd2b2 Ke8f8
 19/60+	01:55	 120.356.536	1.051.000	+0,66	Bd2xh6
 19/60	02:09	 136.646.554	1.058.000	+0,66	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Ra1a2 Bc8e6 Rf1e1 Qc3a5 Re1e3 Rf8g8 Nf3g5+ Rg8xg5 Qf4xg5 Ra8g8 Qg5h4+ Kh7g7 c2c3 Kg7f8 Ra2a1 Nc6e7 Re3g3 Rg8xg3 Qh4xg3 Be6f5 Qg3e3 Qa5b6 h2h4 Qb6g6 f2f3 Bf5d3 g2g4 Ne7f5 Qe3g5 Qg6xg5 h4xg5
 20/62+	02:55	 184.161.166	1.056.000	+0,76	Bd2xh6
 20/81+	03:49	 240.854.717	1.053.000	+0,97	Bd2xh6
 20/86	07:13	 468.176.761	1.081.000	+1,12	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1e1 Qc3xc2 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Ng5e4 Rf8d8 Qf4g5+ Kg8f8 Qg5h6+ Kf8e7 Qh6f6+ Ke7f8 e5e6 Bc8xe6 Ne4g5 Kf8g8 Ng5xe6 Qc2g6 Qf6xg6+ f7xg6 Ne6xd8 Ra8xd8 Ra1d1 Kg8f7 h2h4 Kf7f6 Re1e3 Nc6e7 g2g4 Ne7c6 Kg1g2 Rd8h8 Kg2g3 b7b6 Re3f3+ Kf6g7
 21/86	07:19	 474.882.267	1.082.000	+1,12	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1e1 Qc3xc2 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Ng5e4 Rf8d8 Qf4g5+ Kg8f8 Qg5h6+ Kf8e7 Qh6f6+ Ke7f8 e5e6 Bc8xe6 Ne4g5 Kf8g8 Ng5xe6 Qc2g6 Qf6xg6+ f7xg6 Ne6xd8 Ra8xd8 Ra1d1 Kg8f7 h2h4 Kf7f6 Re1e3 Nc6e7 g2g4 Ne7c6 Kg1g2 Rd8h8 Kg2g3 b7b6 Re3f3+ Kf6g7
 22/86-	07:45	 507.155.379	1.092.000	+1,02	Bd2xh6 g7xh6
 22/86	09:25	 619.319.642	1.097.000	+0,99	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1e1 Qc3xc2 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Ng5e4 Rf8d8 Qf4g5+ Kg8f8 Qg5h6+ Kf8e7 Qh6f6+ Ke7f8 e5e6 Bc8xe6 Ne4g5 Kf8g8 Ng5xe6 Qc2g6 Qf6xg6+ f7xg6 Ne6xd8 Ra8xd8 Ra1d1 Kg8f7 h2h4 Nc6a5 Re1e3 Na5b3 g2g3 b7b5 Kg1g2 Kf7f6 f2f4 Rd8f8 Re3e5 Rf8d8
 23/86	14:59	 997.413.843	1.110.000	+0,98	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1e1 Qc3xc2 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Ng5e4 Rf8d8 Qf4g5+ Kg8f8 Qg5h6+ Kf8e7 Qh6f6+ Ke7f8 e5e6 Bc8xe6 Ne4g5 Kf8g8 Ng5xe6 Qc2g6 Qf6xg6+ f7xg6 Ne6xd8 Ra8xd8 Ra1d1 Kg8f7 Re1e3 Rd8h8 h2h3 g6g5 Re3g3 Kf7f6 Rg3g4 Kf6f5 Rd1e1 Rh8h4 Rg4xh4 g5xh4 Re1b1 Kf5e4 Rb1xb7 Ke4xd4
 23/86	20:00	1.348.667.671	1.124.000	+0,98	Bd2xh6 g7xh6 Qh5xh6 f5f4 Qh6g5+ Kg8h7 Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 Rf1e1 Qc3xc2 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8 Ng5e4 Rf8d8 Qf4g5+ Kg8f8 Qg5h6+ Kf8e7 Qh6f6+ Ke7f8 e5e6 Bc8xe6 Ne4g5 Kf8g8 Ng5xe6 Qc2g6 Qf6xg6+ f7xg6 Ne6xd8 Ra8xd8 Ra1d1 Kg8f7 Re1e3 Rd8h8 h2h3 g6g5 Re3g3 Kf7f6 Rg3g4 Kf6f5 Rd1e1 Rh8h4 Rg4xh4 g5xh4 Re1b1 Kf5e4 Rb1xb7 Ke4xd4
I stopped the analysis after 20 minutes. 14.- Bxh6 looks the way to go.

------------------------

How did you reach this position? It seems like a French Winawer to my patzer eye (the white chain of pawns a3, c2, c3, d4, e5), with something like ..., Ne7; ..., Nf5; Bxf5, exf5.

Something like this (not in this exact order): 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 O-O 8. Bd3 Nbc6 9. Nf3 Nf5 10. Bxf5 exf5 11. Qh5 Qa5 12. Bd2 c4 13. O-O h6

It seems that black needs more knowledge about king safety.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
zd3nik
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:34 am
Location: United States

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by zd3nik »

Ajedrecista wrote:How did you reach this position? It seems like a French Winawer to my patzer eye (the white chain of pawns a3, c2, c3, d4, e5), with something like ..., Ne7; ..., Nf5; Bxf5, exf5.

Something like this (not in this exact order): 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 O-O 8. Bd3 Nbc6 9. Nf3 Nf5 10. Bxf5 exf5 11. Qh5 Qa5 12. Bd2 c4 13. O-O h6

It seems that black needs more knowledge about king safety.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Thanks for the Houdini analysis Ajedrecista! I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be a real crusher in this position.

This position occurred while I was watching a game in a gauntlet I have running with my Bumblebee engine. The gauntlet is using the Silver_Pos50 pgn, so the opening comes from there.

I think this game was against SOS 5.1. .. h6 wasn't actually played in the game, but it did show up in Bumblebee's PV for a second or so, resulting in a very bad headache for me after pounding my head on desk for 20 minutes...

I then plugged the position into several engines, and even though most of them eventually settled on Bxh6, none of them gave it a huge score. Looking at this position I can't help but think there must be a preparatory move (or couple of moves) for white that sets up a truly crushing attack.
jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by jhellis3 »

Bxh6 is 1-0.... you can't score anymore points than that...
acase
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by acase »

zd3nik wrote:[d] r1b2rk1/pp3pp1/2n4p/q2pPp1Q/2pP4/P1P2N2/2PB1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 14

Stockfish likes Bxh6 better than all the other engines I have installed. But even after thinking for over 3 minutes it only give it an eval of just over 100 cp (single thread on i5 laptop)

Is there a better way to exploit blacks seemingly suicidal position?



here is what Houdini 4 tactical says after overnight analysis (20 cores):


34/145 2:38:01 346,246,402k 36,518k +1.62 14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 15.Qh5xh6 f5-f4 16.Qh6-g5+ Kg8-h7 17.Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 18.Ra1-a2 Qc3-a5 19.Nf3-g5+ Kh7-g8 20.Qf4-g3 Bc8-f5 21.e5-e6 f7xe6 22.Ng5xe6+ Kg8-f7 23.Ne6xf8 Ra8xf8 24.Ra2-b2 Nc6-d8 25.h2-h4 Bf5-e6 26.Rf1-b1 b7-b6 27.Rb2-b4 Kf7-e8 28.h4-h5 Qa5-a6 29.a3-a4 Rf8-g8 30.Qg3-f3 Qa6-b7 31.a4-a5 Qb7-f7 32.Qf3xf7+ Be6xf7 33.a5xb6 a7xb6 34.Rb4xb6 Bf7xh5 35.Rb6-d6 Ke8-e7 36.Rd6xd5 Bh5-f3 37.Rb1-e1+ Nd8-e6 38.Rd5-e5 Rg8xg2+ 39.Kg1-f1 Rg2-h2 40.Re5xe6+ Ke7-f7 41.Re6-e7+ Kf7-g6 42.Re1-e6+ Kg6-f5 43.Re6-e5+ Kf5-f6 44.Re7-e6+ Kf6-f7 45.Re5-f5+ Kf7xe6 46.Rf5xf3 Rh2-h1+ 47.Kf1-e2 Ke6-d6 48.Ke2-d2 Rh1-a1 49.Rf3-f5 Ra1-a3 50.f2-f3 Kd6-e6 51.Rf5-e5+ Ke6-d6 52.f3-f4 Ra3-f3 53.f4-f5 Kd6-d7 54.Re5-c5 Kd7-d6 55.c2-c3 Rf3-d3+ 56.Kd2-c2 Rd3-f3 57.Rc5xc4 Rf3xf5 58.Kc2-d3 Rf5-f3+ 59.Kd3-d2 Rf3-f2+ 60.Kd2-e3 Rf2-a2 61.Rc4-c5 Ra2-a3 62.Ke3-e4 Ra3-a1 63.Ke4-d3

35/145- 3:18:11 442,459,216k 37,209k +1.50 14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6

35/145+ 4:50:53 639,657,999k 36,648k +1.73 14.Bd2xh6

35/145 5:44:14 763,871,408k 36,982k +1.71 14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 15.Qh5xh6 f5-f4 16.Qh6-g5+ Kg8-h7 17.Qg5xf4 Qa5xc3 18.Ra1-a2 Qc3-a5 19.Nf3-g5+ Kh7-g8 20.Qf4-g3 Bc8-f5 21.e5-e6 f7xe6 22.Ng5xe6+ Kg8-f7 23.Ne6xf8 Ra8xf8 24.Ra2-b2 Nc6-d8 25.h2-h4 Qa5-d2 26.Qg3-f3 Kf7-g7 27.Qf3xd5 c4-c3 28.Qd5-e5+ Rf8-f6 29.Rb2-b3 Nd8-f7 30.Rb3xb7 Bf5xc2 31.g2-g4 Qd2-f4 32.f2-f3 Bc2-g6 33.Qe5xf4 Rf6xf4 34.h4-h5 Bg6-d3

36/145- 7:22:24 999,892,710k 37,669k +1.60 14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6

36/145+ 9:54:28 1,323,010,014k 37,092k +1.82 14.Bd2xh6
acase
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by acase »

Fritz 15 seems to be slightly more optimistic:

Code: Select all

Fritz 15:

 30	2:23:44	131,049,829k	15,196k	+2.12	14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 15.Qh5xh6 f5-f4 16.Ra1-e1 Qa5-d8 17.Qh6xf4 Nc6-e7 18.e5-e6 Bc8xe6 19.Qf4-g3+ Kg8-h8 20.Re1-e5 Ne7-g6 21.Re5xe6 f7xe6 22.Qg3xg6 Qd8-f6 23.Nf3-e5 Ra8-e8 24.Qg6-h5+ Kh8-g8 25.f2-f4 Qf6-f5 26.Qh5-h4 Qf5-f6 27.Qh4-g3+ Qf6-g7 28.Qg3-e1 Qg7-h7 29.Rf1-f3

 31	3:39:59	208,610,859k	15,805k	+2.05	14.Bd2xh6 g7xh6 15.Qh5xh6 f5-f4 16.Ra1-e1 Qa5-d8 17.Qh6xf4 Nc6-e7 18.e5-e6 Bc8xe6 19.Qf4-g3+ Kg8-h8 20.Re1-e5 Ne7-g6 21.Re5xe6 f7xe6 22.Qg3xg6 Qd8-f6 23.Nf3-e5 Ra8-e8 24.Qg6-h5+ Kh8-g8 25.Ne5-g4 Qf6-f4 26.g2-g3
Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by Terry McCracken »

zd3nik wrote:
Ajedrecista wrote:How did you reach this position? It seems like a French Winawer to my patzer eye (the white chain of pawns a3, c2, c3, d4, e5), with something like ..., Ne7; ..., Nf5; Bxf5, exf5.

Something like this (not in this exact order): 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 O-O 8. Bd3 Nbc6 9. Nf3 Nf5 10. Bxf5 exf5 11. Qh5 Qa5 12. Bd2 c4 13. O-O h6

It seems that black needs more knowledge about king safety.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Thanks for the Houdini analysis Ajedrecista! I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be a real crusher in this position.

This position occurred while I was watching a game in a gauntlet I have running with my Bumblebee engine. The gauntlet is using the Silver_Pos50 pgn, so the opening comes from there.

I think this game was against SOS 5.1. .. h6 wasn't actually played in the game, but it did show up in Bumblebee's PV for a second or so, resulting in a very bad headache for me after pounding my head on desk for 20 minutes...

I then plugged the position into several engines, and even though most of them eventually settled on Bxh6, none of them gave it a huge score. Looking at this position I can't help but think there must be a preparatory move (or couple of moves) for white that sets up a truly crushing attack.
Bxh6 is outright winning, what more do you want? Engines are nowhere near perfection in evaluating positions. Engines simply underestimate White's attack. That needs to be fixed.
Terry McCracken
S.Taylor
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Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by S.Taylor »

Yes, there is no question at all. Firstly white gets 2 important pawn for a bishop, and gets a ruinous attack. White has a pawn on e5 to hamper defence.

It shouldn't take many seconds for a human to give up the bishop and be confident of winning.
Stan Arts
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Location: the Netherlands

Re: Is Bxh6 as good as it looks?

Post by Stan Arts »

S.Taylor wrote:Yes, there is no question at all. Firstly white gets 2 important pawn for a bishop, and gets a ruinous attack. White has a pawn on e5 to hamper defence.

It shouldn't take many seconds for a human to give up the bishop and be confident of winning.
Not so obvious. At first glance white needs one more piece for an attack and if you don't find that rook out of the way Be6 stuff fails to Nh7 Nf6+ it doesn't look too promising ie. I would not play it in a blitz game. :)