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Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:20 pm
by Isaac
5 games have been played between a new go program called Alphago (from google deepmind) against the top European champion. No handicap stone. The program won the 5 games.
Sources:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 16961.html
Games can be downloaded at
http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/01/alphag ... i-advance/.
In March it is said that Lee Sedol (regarded as the strongest go player in the world by many) will play Alphago.
What's next?
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:28 pm
by PK
It's a great achievement for computer go, but the difference between top European players and top Asians is probably like a difference between an IM and a GM. The best Polish player, Mateusz Surma, who has gained the newly created title of "Europaean professional" recently (there are only 4 or 6 of them) was far from the best in the Korean go school.
This being said, I looked at the game and its flow was surprisingly natural.
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:32 pm
by matthewlai
Videos available on DeepMind site:
http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:46 pm
by chetday
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:22 pm
by towforce
It is very important to note that Alphago is a knowledge-based system: in contrast to IBM's Deep Blue, Google have used deep neural networks.
Firstly, they learned from a database of existing games, then the system played millions of games against itself, steadily improving.
Human level intelligence is quickly coming into sight...
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:11 pm
by Laskos
Fan Hui is 2p professional. 5-0 suggests at least 4p for AlphaGo. Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p. This thing runs on 170 GPU cards and 1,200 standard processors, and assuming quadrupling for a stone, it has 5 stones advantage over normal hardware on KGS (say a cluster of 24 regular cores). Lee Sedol is above regular 9p. Let's see.
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:16 pm
by Bloodbane
Laskos wrote:Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p.
This was the most shocking part in my opinion.
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:26 pm
by Laskos
Bloodbane wrote:Laskos wrote:Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p.
This was the most shocking part in my opinion.
Yes, that's amazing.
I have a better estimate, using this site:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?EGFRatingSystem . 99.8% against 6d Crazy Stone seems close to 500 ELO points (or whatever it's called). It means close to 5 stones. If 1p is ~ 8d , then 5 stones above Crazy Stone is about
4p. It seems to me AlphaGo will lose to Lee Sedol (9p).
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:27 pm
by PK
IIRC professional go grades are not one handicap stone apart. More like 1/3 of a stone.
Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:38 pm
by Laskos
PK wrote:IIRC professional go grades are not one handicap stone apart. More like 1/3 of a stone.
Thanks, I think that's correct. Then if AlphaGo is 5 stones above Crazy Stone, it should be close to 7-8p.
Wonder how much of this 5 stone advantage is due to those 170 GPU cards.