Go has fallen to computer domination?

[duncan]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

[bob]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

Yes, all those games where it beat Benjamin, Byrne, Keane, etc, etc...

If it was only a 2300 player, then the average GM rating should have been 2200, because DB produced a 2650 performance rating over 25+ consecutive GM games against different players. As per the Fredkin prize rules. You can probably google Deep Blue Fredkin and find a list of the opponents that produced that rating...

[Rein Halbersma]

Bob, Deep Blue wasn't lucky to beat Kasparov - Kasparov loved the money too much - and contractual he had to lose anyway (and i have that from an insider who was helping out Kasparov at that time).

So Kasparov was stupid enough to have a clause in his contract determining the outcome (do you really think IBM would commit securities fraud like that??!!), but he didn'tthink of a rematch clause? Get serious

[diep]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

There is an excellent analysis of all the weak moves in match2 in the june edition 1997 from ICGA by GM Yasser Seirawan.

just lay those 6 games with all those bad moves next to games against strong GMs that kasparov played in the same months. take also 6. How many bad moves did kasparov play THERE?

Against those GMs kasparov DOES play his best openingslines. Against deep blue with its very bad book he didn't want to waste on such exhibition match good lines of his so he just do some random openingsmoves.

So kasparov's largest advantage he didn't use - opening.

[diep]

Bob, Deep Blue wasn't lucky to beat Kasparov - Kasparov loved the money too much - and contractual he had to lose anyway (and i have that from an insider who was helping out Kasparov at that time).

So Kasparov was stupid enough to have a clause in his contract determining the outcome (do you really think IBM would commit securities fraud like that??!!), but he didn'tthink of a rematch clause? Get serious

Contract is a contract you just need to find someone stupid enough to sign it. American law is total different from Dutch law there Rein.

In case of sportplayers most of them LIKE to easily make money, especially if that doesn't lose them elorating on the world ranking list.

Furthermore he always got a rematch anyway Rein.

You can see this from kasparov's reaction right after the match. His initial reaction live on CNN was very optimistic and praising of deep blue's performance.

Then 1 hour later he hears from his manager that IBM wants to stop the matches and that this 2nd match is the last match and that they had FORGOTTEN to put a rematch clause in it - which to them was something they didn't think of as in FIDE it was by then usual to have one - then he starts to realize that this time he has done something stupid.

So his next reaction an hour later on television is that of fire that gets out of his nose and accusations - anything except explain how much he made on it - besides that some GMs told me they were also jealous at how he made cash off some bookmakers indirectly (via friends).

Kasparov earned 2 times.

I have this confirmed by several sources. Not just 1.

please note that in later matches Kramnik is clever enough to also allow matches to end equal. So in negotiations with me the appointed lumpsum also had to get paid in case the match would end in a draw and only 20% in case the computer would lose the match.

[bob]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

There is an excellent analysis of all the weak moves in match2 in the june edition 1997 from ICGA by GM Yasser Seirawan.

just lay those 6 games with all those bad moves next to games against strong GMs that kasparov played in the same months. take also 6. How many bad moves did kasparov play THERE?

Against those GMs kasparov DOES play his best openingslines. Against deep blue with its very bad book he didn't want to waste on such exhibition match good lines of his so he just do some random openingsmoves.

So kasparov's largest advantage he didn't use - opening.

When someone wins a game, no one even notices bad moves. Does not mean none were played. Do you believe all the OTHER GMs that DB defeated on the way to winning the stage II Fredkin prize just threw the games as well???

[diep]

Please note Rein that such sportplayers are so rich they have a manager and therefore that is a company.

For example if you buy a few items as a private person in EU then you have a warranty. If on other hand you buy the same items as a company - you don't have that warranty. Deal is deal and that's it. You can't return the items in short.

I have had this at several occasions already that i couldn't return items to a computershop for example (for example bunch of 18CM fans that didn't blow the amount of CFM i had bought them for). The company (in this town by the way) simply refused to take them back as my company bought the items.

That's how it works also in EU if you are at company level. All those sporters a bit stronger with enough cash income (say a few million a year) have their own company of course.

So basically there is nothing that protects you from signing any deal nor sales.

Until recently under Dutch law also bribing fees paid in 3d world nations you could tax reduce.

That's just business. Ever seen anyone sign a huge deal in a 3d world nation WITHOUT bribing?

Business with dudes from Russia is far worse there in fact than doing business in Nigeria.

Even salaries paid to employees, like 10% is white money where they paid that 13% tax over and 90% of the salary goes black.

[diep]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

There is an excellent analysis of all the weak moves in match2 in the june edition 1997 from ICGA by GM Yasser Seirawan.

just lay those 6 games with all those bad moves next to games against strong GMs that kasparov played in the same months. take also 6. How many bad moves did kasparov play THERE?

Against those GMs kasparov DOES play his best openingslines. Against deep blue with its very bad book he didn't want to waste on such exhibition match good lines of his so he just do some random openingsmoves.

So kasparov's largest advantage he didn't use - opening.

When someone wins a game, no one even notices bad moves. Does not mean none were played. Do you believe all the OTHER GMs that DB defeated on the way to winning the stage II Fredkin prize just threw the games as well???

Bob no one takes you serious in here. I remember also a guy from MIT elo 2350 or so in USA who Don Dailey took with him to my home.

We played some blitz games. I won 100% of them.

He just didn't know a f* about the game strategically let alone positionally. Some tricky openings that was it.

Does that mean i was 750+ elo stronger than this yank?

Not so long after the 2nd match kasparov - deep blue, it was GM Salov who said that he didn't consider Kasparov a very strong GM other than having a very good opening at which he very succesfully managed to bluff away opponents.

Now i might not entirely agree with Salov there - yet in later match with Kramnik this was confirmed.

Kramnik just played Berlin defense and Kasparov simply didn't play great chess in the endgame. Sometimes even a bad move!

Yet that all is irrelevant. Contract is contract simply.

[bob]

2200 at most yeah. Realize also they had a very bad book. Just some pgn games. No nothing manual.

could you give some samples of weak 2200 play by deep blue ?

There is an excellent analysis of all the weak moves in match2 in the june edition 1997 from ICGA by GM Yasser Seirawan.

just lay those 6 games with all those bad moves next to games against strong GMs that kasparov played in the same months. take also 6. How many bad moves did kasparov play THERE?

Against those GMs kasparov DOES play his best openingslines. Against deep blue with its very bad book he didn't want to waste on such exhibition match good lines of his so he just do some random openingsmoves.

So kasparov's largest advantage he didn't use - opening.

When someone wins a game, no one even notices bad moves. Does not mean none were played. Do you believe all the OTHER GMs that DB defeated on the way to winning the stage II Fredkin prize just threw the games as well???

Bob no one takes you serious in here. I remember also a guy from MIT elo 2350 or so in USA who Don Dailey took with him to my home.

We played some blitz games. I won 100% of them.

He just didn't know a f* about the game strategically let alone positionally. Some tricky openings that was it.

Does that mean i was 750+ elo stronger than this yank?

Not so long after the 2nd match kasparov - deep blue, it was GM Salov who said that he didn't consider Kasparov a very strong GM other than having a very good opening at which he very succesfully managed to bluff away opponents.

Now i might not entirely agree with Salov there - yet in later match with Kramnik this was confirmed.

Kramnik just played Berlin defense and Kasparov simply didn't play great chess in the endgame. Sometimes even a bad move!

Yet that all is irrelevant. Contract is contract simply.

That's pure nonsense. I'd guess if your results were that good the guy was NOT a 2350 Elo player. Or he was drunk. Or whatever. Or the guy was simply a poor blitz player. It happens. I watched Mike Valvo beat MANY GM players at speed chess, even giving them (on occasion) a time handicap. But that was blitz. As far as Kasparov "not a strong GM"? That deserves no comment. Doesn't matter how you win games, so long as you play by the rules.

[bob]

Please note Rein that such sportplayers are so rich they have a manager and therefore that is a company.

For example if you buy a few items as a private person in EU then you have a warranty. If on other hand you buy the same items as a company - you don't have that warranty. Deal is deal and that's it. You can't return the items in short.

I have had this at several occasions already that i couldn't return items to a computershop for example (for example bunch of 18CM fans that didn't blow the amount of CFM i had bought them for). The company (in this town by the way) simply refused to take them back as my company bought the items.

That's how it works also in EU if you are at company level. All those sporters a bit stronger with enough cash income (say a few million a year) have their own company of course.

So basically there is nothing that protects you from signing any deal nor sales.

Until recently under Dutch law also bribing fees paid in 3d world nations you could tax reduce.

That's just business. Ever seen anyone sign a huge deal in a 3d world nation WITHOUT bribing?

Business with dudes from Russia is far worse there in fact than doing business in Nigeria.

Even salaries paid to employees, like 10% is white money where they paid that 13% tax over and 90% of the salary goes black.

I must say another reason to NOT live in the EU.