Ron Nelson maybe will come here...

[Daniel Anulliero]

Hi Mr Nelson!
I'm happy you are in our forum!
I'm à chess programmer amateur and a chess machine collector (mainly the models from 1978 to 1985 , the golden age for me 😊)
I have the CC7 (great machine!) , the voice and CC10 Sadly not working ...
I have a small request:
Can you describe in details your search algorithm , and the evaluation function of the chess challenger 7 ? It's my prefered machine and I'm curious !
All the Bests
Dany

[ChessChallenger]

Hi Mr Nelson!
I'm happy you are in our forum!
I'm à chess programmer amateur and a chess machine collector (mainly the models from 1978 to 1985 , the golden age for me 😊)
I have the CC7 (great machine!) , the voice and CC10 Sadly not working ...
I have a small request:
Can you describe in details your search algorithm , and the evaluation function of the chess challenger 7 ? It's my prefered machine and I'm curious !
All the Bests
Dany

Hi Dany,

It has been nearly 40 years ago that I invented Chess Challenger.

All of my 8080/Z80 programs used a swap off estimator based upon attackers to a square.
CC1 was a 1ply search
CC3 was 1 full, 2 was 1 full plus 1 selective, 3 was 1 full plus 2 selective.
CC10 had mixed full width and selective search levels.
CC7 was my cost reduced CC10 in plastic instead of wood housing. It used a Z80 and 256 bytes of RAM, The CC1,CC3,CC10 all used 512 bytes of Ram.
The search levels would have been similar to the CC10 with 3 removed because of RAM reduction and to not hurt the CC10 marketing.

Ron Nelson

[mclane]

Hi Ron. There were 3 chess challenger 10.
Version A did not like to castle.
Version B castled better.

One can identify if a machine is A or B by looking into the opening book,
They have different opening lines.

when playing 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6
Version B plays 3.Nf3, while Version A moves 3.Nc3.
This way one can identify A and B.
C has a different case, therefore identifying is easy.

And version C had a different CPU and it looked some older motherboards
(Chess challenger 3 ?!) had been recycled.

Therefore C has no loudspeaker and less keys.
A and B had z80 while C has 8088.

How did the software change between A B and C ?
Ok we know A rarely castled, but maybe there were more changes.

[Daniel Anulliero]

Hi Mr Nelson!
I'm happy you are in our forum!
I'm à chess programmer amateur and a chess machine collector (mainly the models from 1978 to 1985 , the golden age for me 😊)
I have the CC7 (great machine!) , the voice and CC10 Sadly not working ...
I have a small request:
Can you describe in details your search algorithm , and the evaluation function of the chess challenger 7 ? It's my prefered machine and I'm curious !
All the Bests
Dany

Hi Dany,

It has been nearly 40 years ago that I invented Chess Challenger.

All of my 8080/Z80 programs used a swap off estimator based upon attackers to a square.
CC1 was a 1ply search
CC3 was 1 full, 2 was 1 full plus 1 selective, 3 was 1 full plus 2 selective.
CC10 had mixed full width and selective search levels.
CC7 was my cost reduced CC10 in plastic instead of wood housing. It used a Z80 and 256 bytes of RAM, The CC1,CC3,CC10 all used 512 bytes of Ram.
The search levels would have been similar to the CC10 with 3 removed because of RAM reduction and to not hurt the CC10 marketing.

Ron Nelson

Hi Ron
Thanks for the answer !
Another one small question :
What improvement did you found with your chess challenger voice (it play better than CC7 and 10) ? Is the sensory voice have the same programme program?
Can we "emule" somewhere your first programs ? (CC7 , CC voice etc...)
All the best
Dany

[ChessChallenger]

Hi Ron. There were 3 chess challenger 10.
Version A did not like to castle.
Version B castled better.

One can identify if a machine is A or B by looking into the opening book,
They have different opening lines.

when playing 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6
Version B plays 3.Nf3, while Version A moves 3.Nc3.
This way one can identify A and B.
C has a different case, therefore identifying is easy.

And version C had a different CPU and it looked some older motherboards
(Chess challenger 3 ?!) had been recycled.

Therefore C has no loudspeaker and less keys.
A and B had z80 while C has 8088.

How did the software change between A B and C ?
Ok we know A rarely castled, but maybe there were more changes.

Hi Thorsten,

It has been many years since the CC10, but versions A & B sound like normal software upgrades.

Your version C cannot be since I never reduced the number of keys and never used an 8088.

I knew the CC7 was a Z80, but couldn't remember if the CC10 was too. It makes sense since about the time of the introduction of the CC7, Sid Samole and I flew to California to visit with Zilog.
Since we were starting to be a major customer we were treated very, very well.
It was about the time when Exxon Mobile had bought Zilog. The new CEO, a youngish clever fellow, met with us, and stated how Exxon considered silicon chips the new "Oil" of the 20th century.
Federico Faggin, the inventor of the Z80 and Zilog founder, stopped in to say hello, which thrilled me enormously.

[ChessChallenger]

Hi Ron
Thanks for the answer !
Another one small question :
What improvement did you found with your chess challenger voice (it play better than CC7 and 10) ? Is the sensory voice have the same programme program?
Can we "emule" somewhere your first programs ? (CC7 , CC voice etc...)
All the best
Dany

Hi Dany,

I am afraid I cannot remember that far back to my early software development days using the 8080 and z80. So I cannot say what improvements were made.

All the software was on 8" floppy discs, which eventually were discarded.
I remember keeping some of the ROMs, but eventually they too were discarded in house cleaning and downsizing when I moved and retired.

Ron Nelson

[RJN]

I never stopped programming chess at Fidelity after the Spracklens were hired to work for me. Their programming efforts were high end products and mine were the low end consumer chess computer products.
When their development had peaked I worked with Dan to improve the tactical threat quiescent search that nudged us over the barrier to get Fidelity a rated Chess Master consumer chess computer.

After Fidelity's demise, I worked for Excalibur Electronics and Shane Samole to personally program and design every computer chess game Excalibur had manufactured in China.
Fidelity and Excalibur never owned my programs and paid royalties to me for products using my chess programs and the Spracklen's chess engine.

Here is a list of some late Fidelity and all Excalibur computer chess products using my software programs:
This is comma separated text, which you should be able to import into a spread sheet.

1/11/2016,,Ron Nelson Chess PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT CHRONOLOGY,,,,
,,,,,,
YEAR,Model #,PROJECT,MCU,DATE,COMMENT,Factory
1986,ACM17,Chess Challenger X,Multi: Z80 + 16 x 68000,11/2/1986,Experimental Z80 C Program Controll Sixteen 68000 Engines,Fidelity USA
1987,6084,Gambit,Intel 80C50,,80C50 4KByte ROM 256Byte Ram 6Mhz,Fidelity USA
1989,,Fidelity bought by Hegner & Glaser,,10/1/1989,,
1991,6125,Little Chesster (Fidelity Spracklen Chess Engine),M50743 + ROM + RAM,4/15/1991,65c02 Core Expanded MCU external 128KByte ROM 2KByte Ram,CXG
1992,6136,Chess Mate,Motorla MC68HC05P1,4/14/1992,68HC05P1 2K Bytes ROM 128 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,H & G HK Factory
1992,6137,Avanti,Motorla MC68HC05P1,4/14/1992,68HC05P1 2K Bytes ROM 128 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,H & G HK Factory
1992,6125-RS,Little Chesster (Talking Chess Computer Radio Shack 60-2255),M50743 + ROM + RAM,4/15/1991,65c02 Core Expanded MCU external 128KByte ROM 2KByte Ram,CXG
,,Start at Excalibur,,11/1/1994,,
1996,702E,Mirage,Hitachi HD6433214P16 (H8/3214),6/26/1996,H8/3214 32-KByte ROM; 1-KByte RAM; 12 MHz,EWIG
1996,701-E,IVAN the Terrible,Hitachi HD6433216P12 (H8/3216),8/1/1996,H8/3216 48-KByte ROM; 2-KByte RAM; 12 MHz,CXG then EWIG
1997,747K,Karpov Grandmaster,Hitachi HD6433214L01P (H8/3214),4/17/1997,H8/3214 32-KByte ROM; 1-KByte RAM; 12 MHz,EWIG
1997,711E,Igor,Hitachi HD6433214P12 (H8/3214),5/5/1997,H8/3214 32-KByte ROM; 1-KByte RAM; 12 MHz,EWIG
1997,932ED-2,"""Excalibur"" Electronic Chess (Large Table Top)",Motorla MC68HC05P4,7/23/1997,68HC05P4 4K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,EWIG
1997,901E-3,Saber III (Medium Table Top),Motorla MC68HC05P4,7/23/1997,68HC05P4 4K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,Sametime
1997,117,Squire (Small Peg Travel),Motorla MC68HC05P4,7/23/1997,68HC05P4 4K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,Sametime
1997,911E-2,Kingmaster II (Large Table Top)(Chess & Checkers),Motorla MC68HCO5C8A,7/23/1997,68HCO5C8A 8K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,EWIG
1997,169E-2,Travel Kingmaster II (Small Peg Travel)(Chess & Checkers),Motorla MC68HCO5C8A,7/23/1997,68HCO5C8A 8K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,Sametime
1997,903,Crusader (Medium Peg Travel)(Chess & Checkers),Motorla MC68HCO5C8A,7/23/1997,68HCO5C8A 8K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,Sametime
1999,169E-2-RS,Travel Chess & Checkers (Radio Shack 60-2219),Motorla MC68HCO5C8A,7/23/1997,68HCO5C8A 8K Bytes ROM 176 Bytes Ram 2 MHz,Sametime
--------,,UNPAID SABBATICAL,6/15/99 to 3/1/00,--------,Time to program a 4-bit MCU & Design LCD Chess,
2000,375,LCD Computer Chess,Samsung KS57C21516,5/1/2000,4-Bit core SAM47 KS57C21516 16K Byte ROM 544 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2000,915,King Arthur,Samsung KS57C21516,6/5/2000,4-Bit core SAM47 KS57C21516 16K Byte ROM 544 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
,,Sidney Samole Dies,,7/30/2000,,
2000,117,Squire II (Small Peg Travel), Samsung KS57C2304,,4-Bit core SAM47 KS57C2304 4K Byte ROM 288 Nibble Ram 1.0MHz,Sametime
2000,169E-3,Travel Kingmaster III (Small Peg Travel)(Chess & Checkers),Samsung KS57C2308,,4-Bit core SAM47 KS57C2308 8K Bytes ROM 512 Nibble Ram 1.0MHz,Sametime
2000,711E-2,Igor II,Samsung KS57C2308,10/4/2000,4-Bit core SAM47 KS57C2308 8K Bytes ROM 512 Nibble Ram 1.0MHz,EWIG
2001,404,Touch Chess,Samsung S3C72F5DA7-C0C5,4/24/2001,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72F5 16K Byte ROM 544 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,KidsTech
2001,915-2,King Arthur 2.7,Samsung S3C72F5DA9-C0C5,6/11/2001,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72F5 16K Byte ROM 544 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2001,901E-4,Saber IV,S3C72K8X11-C0C8,12/29/2001,"4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72K8 8K Byte ROM 1,024 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz",Sametime
2001,410,eChess (Radio Shack 60-2845),Samsung S3C72P9,2/1/2001,"4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 16K Byte ROM 1,024 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz",Cybertronics (Expert)
2002,410V,Talking eChess (Radio Shack 60-2709),Sunplus SPL191A,8/19/2002,65c02 SPL191A 256KByte ROM 704 Bytes Ram 3MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2002,375V,Talking LCD Chess,Sunplus SPL191B-063A,8/19/2002,65c02 SPL191A 256KByte ROM 704 Bytes Ram 3MHz,Sametime
2002,975,Chess Station,S3C72F5,5/3/2002,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72F5 16K Byte ROM 544 Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2003,712-2,Ivan II The Conqueror,Sunplus SPLB32A-043,11/20/2002,65c02 SPLB32A 512K Byte ROM 1215 Byte Ram 5MHz,EWIG
2003,908,Alexandra the Great,Sunplus SPLB32A-068A,,65c02 SPLB32A 512K Byte ROM 1215 Byte Ram 5MHz,EWIG
2003,911E-3,King Master III (Universal A),S3C72P9x21-C0C5,5/15/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 16K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2003,932-JJ,Excalibur Chess (JJ) (Universal A),S3C72P9x21-C0C5,7/7/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P916K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2003,404-1,Touch Chess (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,KidsTech
2003,404-2,Touch Chess & Checkers (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,KidsTech
2003,375-1,LCD Chess (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2003,375-2,LCD Chess & Checkers (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 32K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2003,974,NYT Electronic Chess,S3C72P9X23-C0C9,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2003,915-3,King Arthur (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2003,915-JJ,King Arthur (JJ) (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,7/7/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2003,975-1,Chess Station (Universal B), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,6/2/2003,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Sametime
2003,410-3-CS-RS ,e-Chess & Checkers (Radio Shack 60-2730), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,4/28/2004,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2004,404D,Deluxe Talking Touch Chess,Sunplus SPLB36A1-A04A,6/6/2004,65c02 SPLB36A1 512KByte ROM 2560 Bytes Ram 4MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2004,410-3-RS,2-in-1 Electronic Chess and Checkers (Rado Shack 60-2725),S3C72P9X28-C0C9,4/28/2004,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2005,375X,LCD Chess Express,SPLB33A-008A,6/3/2005,65c02 SPLB33A 64KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 4MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2005,410X,e-Chess Express,Chipmast ET50C014,5/20/2005,ET50C014 65c02 14 KBbyte ROM 160 Byte Ram 2.2 MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2005,410X-RS,e-Chess Express (Radio Shack 60-2742),Chipmast ET50C014,5/20/2005,ET50C014 65c02 14 KBbyte ROM 160 Byte Ram 2.2 MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2005,375V-XX,King Master (Hand Held),Sunplus SPL191B-063A,,65c02 SPL191A 256KByte ROM 704 Bytes Ram 3MHz,Sametime
2005,915W,King Arthur (JJ) (Universal), S3C72P9X22-C0C7 ,7/15/2005,4-Bit core SAM47 S3C72P9 24K Byte ROM 1K Nibble Ram 1.5MHz,EWIG
2006,404ET,Touch Chess II (Executive Touch Chess),Sitronix ST2064B-0108,5/16/2006,ST2064B 65c02 64K ROM 2.4K RAM 2MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2007,NY22,New York Time Deluxe Touch Chess,Sunplus SPLB36A1-A04A,6/6/2004,65c02 SPLB36A1 512KByte ROM 2560 Bytes Ram 4MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2007,410K,LCD Keychain Chess,Chipmast ET50C014,,ET50C014 65c02 14 KBbyte ROM 160 Byte Ram 2.2 MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2007,740D,Phantom Force,GPLB32A2-259A,1/18/2007,65c02 GPLB32A 512KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 5MHz,Wah Shing
2008,ET404,Einstein Touch Chess,ST2064B 65c02,1/18/2008,ST2064B 65c02 64K ROM 2.4K RAM 2MHz,Cybertronics (Expert)
2008,EI5316RE,Einstein Keychain Chess,ST2064B-0223 CHSBCK03,5/24/2008,ST2064B 65c02 64K ROM 2.4K RAM 2MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2008,E123,Einstein LCD Chess Wizard,ST2064B-0223 CHSBCK03,5/24/2008,ST2064B 65c02 64K ROM 2.4K RAM 2MHz,Wide Concept Limited (WCL)
2008,E714,Einstein Chess Wizard,GPLB33AV12,6/3/2008,65c02 GPLB33A 64KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 4MHz,Sametime
2008,E951,Einstein e=MC2 Master Chess Checkers,S3C72F5DXX- C0C5 KingMaster,8/1/2008,911E-3 with Cosmetic Upgrades,EWIG
2009,,Excalibur Bankruptcy - Bought by EB Brands,,7/1/2009,,
2010,XC5351/E714,EB Excalibur Chess Wizard,GeneralPlus GPLB33B-033A,5/4/2010,65c02 GPLB33B 64KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 4MHz,Sametime
2010,XC5416,Talking Chess Champion,GPLB33B-033A,5/4/2010,65c02 GPLB33B 64KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 4MHz,EWIG
2010,TR115,Talking Electronic Chess) for Pavilion (ToysRUS),GPLB33B-033A,5/4/2010,65c02 GPLB33B 64KByte ROM 1216 Bytes Ram 4MHz,EWIG
2010,,Laid off from EB Excalibur,,10/24/2010

Wow, very nice, some of my old purchases and fond memories on that list......hope you are enjoying retirement Mr Nelson, and much thanks.

[mclane]

Hi Ron. There were 3 chess challenger 10.
Version A did not like to castle.
Version B castled better.

One can identify if a machine is A or B by looking into the opening book,
They have different opening lines.

when playing 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6
Version B plays 3.Nf3, while Version A moves 3.Nc3.
This way one can identify A and B.
C has a different case, therefore identifying is easy.

And version C had a different CPU and it looked some older motherboards
(Chess challenger 3 ?!) had been recycled.

Therefore C has no loudspeaker and less keys.
A and B had z80 while C has 8088.

How did the software change between A B and C ?
Ok we know A rarely castled, but maybe there were more changes.

Hi Thorsten,

It has been many years since the CC10, but versions A & B sound like normal software upgrades.

Your version C cannot be since I never reduced the number of keys and never used an 8088.

I knew the CC7 was a Z80, but couldn't remember if the CC10 was too. It makes sense since about the time of the introduction of the CC7, Sid Samole and I flew to California to visit with Zilog.
Since we were starting to be a major customer we were treated very, very well.
It was about the time when Exxon Mobile had bought Zilog. The new CEO, a youngish clever fellow, met with us, and stated how Exxon considered silicon chips the new "Oil" of the 20th century.
Federico Faggin, the inventor of the Z80 and Zilog founder, stopped in to say hello, which thrilled me enormously.

Hi Ron. Thanks for your answer.
Yes CC10 B could be a normal software update that gives a few elo due to the fact it likes to castle while A version rarely castles.


http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... C10c_3.jpg

This is a picture of CC10 C.

Here information about CC10 C, it seems motherboards of CC3 have been "upgraded" to run the program on 8080 too.
8080 was used in CC3 ?!

http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/hein_veld ... 10-1979%20[L-0201]%20Fidelity%20-%20Chess%20Challenger%2010%20(C).pdf

[Daniel Anulliero]

Hi Ron
Thanks for the answer !
Another one small question :
What improvement did you found with your chess challenger voice (it play better than CC7 and 10) ? Is the sensory voice have the same programme program?
Can we "emule" somewhere your first programs ? (CC7 , CC voice etc...)
All the best
Dany

Hi Dany,

I am afraid I cannot remember that far back to my early software development days using the 8080 and z80. So I cannot say what improvements were made.

All the software was on 8" floppy discs, which eventually were discarded.
I remember keeping some of the ROMs, but eventually they too were discarded in house cleaning and downsizing when I moved and retired.

Ron Nelson

Don't worry ron , I was just curious of your great work in the early days of chess computer
Thanks again and have sweets days in your retirement !
Best
Dany

[Henk]

I remember I paid 500 guilders for Chess Challenger Voice. And I only got five guilders a week from my mother to spent.

After a few weeks I understood I could only use it for speed chess.