Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw

Norbert Raimund Leisner
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Augsburg - Germany

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by Norbert Raimund Leisner »

Hello,

is Fritz 15 able to solve the problems which are mentioned on
http://www.herderschach.de/Training/Onl ... tr012.html
(chapter "Unterverwandlungen")?

Just click on the blue printed links and a chess diagram (by ChessBase 8) with the critical position is shown.

Best wishes,
Norbert
Top
Norbert Raimund Leisner
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Augsburg - Germany

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by Norbert Raimund Leisner »

A description in German language (Umwandlungsprobleme)
is here:

http://scleinzell.schachvereine.de/p_cb ... 8_01.shtml (Fritz8)
Top
tpoppins
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:11 pm
Location: upstate

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by tpoppins »

Norbert Raimund Leisner wrote:is Fritz 15 able to solve the problems which are mentioned on
http://www.herderschach.de/Training/Onl ... tr012.html
(chapter "Unterverwandlungen")?
As far as my (rudimentary) German allows me to see, that Unterverwandlungen section deals with four examples of underpromotion. I don't know whether these examples are outdated or simply not well chosen (none of them gives a mate count) but Fritz 15 resolves ##1, 2 and 4 to mate in mere seconds on a 3 GHz (overclocked to 3.6) Core 2 Duo box from 2008 - all without underpromotions or tablebases:

Cornitz – Neumann
Berlin, 1863

[D] 8/8/8/8/k7/ppp1N3/8/1K6 b - - 0 1

The analysis page gives five moves of fancy footwork and concludes with "and Black wins easily" (und Schwarz gewinnt leicht.), which is kind of hilarious considering the root position is a tablebase mate in six. Fritz 15 32-bit finds it instantly (with tablebases off, as WinXP chokes on them):

Code: Select all

1...a2+ 2.Ka1 Kb4 3.Nc2+ bxc2 4.Kxa2 Kc4 5.Ka1 c1Q+ 6.Ka2 Qb2# 
  -+  (-#6)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  5kN

Beni – Littlewood
Luzern, 1963

[D] k6r/2R5/PP6/K7/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

According to the analysis on the herderschach page, the key to the win is an underpromotion to a bishop. F15 gets by without it since it's a tablebase mate in seven, which F15 finds in five seconds with TB off:

Code: Select all

1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Kb8 3.Kb6 Rc6+ 4.Kxc6 Ka7 5.Kc7 Kxa6 6.b8Q Ka5 7.Qb3 Ka6 8.Qb6# 
  +-  (6.35)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q 
  +-  (6.87)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  3kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q 
  +-  (11.09)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  15kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q 
  +-  (11.09)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  15kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q 
  +-  (11.22)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  15kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7[] 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (11.77)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  144kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7[] 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (11.77)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  145kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7[] 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (11.90)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  555kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 15   00:00:01  1505kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  2444kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  2933kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 18   00:00:02  5223kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 19   00:00:02  5454kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 20   00:00:02  5806kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 21   00:00:03  6473kN
1.Rc8+ Rxc8 2.b7+ Ka7 3.bxc8Q[] 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 22   00:00:04  7860kN
1.Rc5 Rb8 2.Rc1 Rh8 3.a7 Rh5+ 4.Ka6 Ra5+ 5.Kxa5 Kb7 6.Rc7+ Ka8 7.Rc8+ Kb7 8.a8Q# 
  +-  (#8)   Depth: 22   00:00:04  8789kN
1.Rc5 Rb8 2.Rc1 Rh8 3.a7 Rh5+ 4.Ka6 Ra5+ 5.Kxa5 Kb7 6.Rc7+ Ka8 7.Rc8+ Kb7 8.a8Q# 
  +-  (#8)   Depth: 23   00:00:04  8955kN
1.Rc5 Rb8 2.Kb5 Rh8 3.a7 Kb7 4.Rc7+ Ka8 5.Ka6 Rb8 6.Rc8 Rxc8 7.b7# 
  +-  (#7)   Depth: 24   00:00:05  9683kN

Tomic – Winzbeck
Dortmund, 1993

[D] 2r1b2k/2P4p/3R2pP/p2B1pP1/Pp2pP2/1P2K3/8/8 w - - 0 1

This position took the longest to resolve since it's the only one that is not a TB mate. The mate in 8 given below has been verified separately on a 64x 12-core Xeon box with 3+4+5 Nalimov TB by letting analysis run to d=40 (the mate was actually found at d=33 after 10 seconds, but I wanted to see if there was a quicker mate)

Code: Select all

1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bxa4 3.bxa4 Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 Kb6 11.h7 Kc5 
  +-  (11.62)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  0kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bxa4 3.bxa4 Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 Kb6 11.h7 Kc5 
  +-  (11.62)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bxa4 3.bxa4 Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 Kb6 11.h7 Kc5 
  +-  (11.62)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bxa4 3.bxa4 Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 Kb6 11.h7 Kc5 
  +-  (11.62)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bxa4 3.bxa4 Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 Kb6 11.h7 Kc5 
  +-  (11.62)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Bc6 3.Bxc6 Kg8 4.Rg7+ Kh8 5.Bb7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kg8 7.Bd5+ Kf8 8.Rxh7 Ke8 9.Bf7+ Kf8 
  +-  (12.44)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  8kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Bc6 3.Bxc6 Kg8 4.Bd5 Kh8 5.Be6 Kg8 6.Bxc8 Kxf7 7.Bxf5 gxf5 8.c8Q Ke7 9.Qxf5 Kd6 10.Qxe4 Kc5 11.Qxh7 Kb6 12.Qd7 
  +-  (15.15)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  16kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Bxa4 3.bxa4[] Kg8 4.Rd7+ Kf8 5.Rxh7 Ke8 6.Bc6+ Kf8 7.Rh8+ Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 b3 11.h7 Kb6 12.Bd5+ Ka7 13.Bxb3 Ka8 14.h8Q+ Kb7 15.Qh7+ Kb8 
  +-  (#80)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  121kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Bxa4 3.bxa4[] Kg8 4.Rd7+[] Kf8 5.Rxh7[] Ke8 6.Bc6+[] Kf8 7.Rh8+[] Ke7 8.Rxc8 Kd6 9.Rg8 Kxc7 10.Rxg6 b3 11.h7 Kb6 12.Bd5+ Kc5 13.h8Q Kb4 14.Qb8+ Kxa4 15.Qxb3# 
  +-  (#15)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  146kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Bc6+[] Kf8 6.Rh8+[] Ke7 7.Rxc8[] Kd6 8.h7 Kxc6 9.h8Q Kd6 10.Qe5+ Kd7 11.Rb8 Kc6 12.c8Q# 
  +-  (#12)   Depth: 16   00:00:00  540kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Bc6+[] Kf8 6.Rh8+[] Ke7[] 7.Rxc8[] Kd6 8.h7 Kxc6 9.h8Q Kd6 10.Qe5+ Kd7 11.Rb8 Kc6 12.c8Q# 
  +-  (#12)   Depth: 17   00:00:00  553kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Bc6+[] Kf8 6.Rh8+[] Ke7 7.Rxc8[] Kd6 8.Bb5 Kc5 9.Rd8 Kb6 10.c8Q Ka7 11.Qc7# 
  +-  (#11)   Depth: 18   00:00:00  601kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+[] Kf8 4.Rxh7[] Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  676kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+[] Kf8 4.Rxh7[] Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  732kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+[] Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  830kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+[] Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 22   00:00:01  1042kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+[] Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 23   00:00:01  1374kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  1885kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 25   00:00:02  2758kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 26   00:00:02  4151kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 27   00:00:04  7674kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7[] Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 28   00:00:07  12420kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 29   00:00:09  17078kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 30   00:00:11  21905kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 31   00:00:15  30614kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 32   00:00:22  44366kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 33   00:00:34  69921kN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 34   00:00:50  101MN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 35   00:01:14  152MN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Rf7 Kg8 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxh7 Ke8 5.Rf7 Rxc7 6.Rxc7 Kd8 7.Rb7 Ke8 8.h7 Kd8 9.h8Q# 
  +-  (#9)   Depth: 36   00:01:42  208MN
1.Rf6 Bd7 2.Kf2 e3+ 3.Ke2 Rg8 4.Rd6 Be8 5.Rd8 Rf8 6.c8Q Bb5+ 7.axb5 Rxd8 8.Qxd8# 
  +-  (#8)   Depth: 37   00:04:02  486MN

Badestein – Otto
Wernigerode, 1952

[D] 5R2/8/4k3/8/8/8/5p1K/6r1 b - - 0 1

A TB mate in 15. Of the four this is the only good example of underpromotion, although rather trivial even for 32-bit F15 running on seven-year-old hardware:

Code: Select all

1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rb1 4.Kf3 Ke5 
  -+  (-6.59)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  2kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kg3 Ra4 5.Kf3 Ke5 
  -+  (-6.63)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  2kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kg3 Ke5 5.Kg2 Rf8 6.Kg3 Rg8+ 
  -+  (-6.63)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  4kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.Kg2 Rf8 6.Kg3 Rf6 7.Kg4 Rg6+ 8.Kf3 
  -+  (-6.62)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  8kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.Kg2 Ke4 6.Kg3 Kf5 7.Kh3 Ke5 8.Kg2 Ke4 9.Kg3 Kf5 10.Kh3 Ke5 11.Kg2 Ke4 12.Kg3 Kf5 13.Kh3 Ke5 14.Kg2 Ke4 15.Kg3 Kf5 16.Kh3 Ke5 
  -+  (-6.73)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  11kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kh3 Kf5 5.Kg3 Kg5 6.Kh3 Rf3+ 7.Kg2 Rb3 
  -+  (-6.74)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  16kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kh3 Kf5 5.Kg3 Kg5 6.Kh3 Rf3+ 7.Kh2 Kf5 8.Kg1 Ke4 9.Kh2 
  -+  (-6.93)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  28kN
1...f1Q 2.Rxf1 Rxf1 3.Kg2 Rf4 4.Kh3 Kf5 5.Kg3 Kg5 6.Kh3 Rg4 7.Kh2 Kf4 8.Kh3 Rg6[] 9.Kh2 Kf3 10.Kh1 Kf2[] 
  -+  (-7.11)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  46kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd5 3.Rd8+ Kc5 4.Rc8+ Kb4 5.Rb8+ Ka3 6.Ra8+ Kb3 7.Rb8+ Kc2 8.Rc8+ Kb2 9.Rb8+ Kc2 10.Rc8+ Kb2 11.Rb8+ Kc2 12.Rc8+ Kb2 13.Rb8+ Kc2 14.Rc8+ Kb2 15.Rb8+ Kc2 16.Rc8+ Kb2 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  258kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re7+ Kd6 4.Rd7+ Ke5 5.Re7+ Kd5 6.Rd7+ Ke6 7.Rd6+ Kf5 8.Rd5+ Kf4[] 9.Rf5+ Ke3[] 10.Re5+ Kf3 11.Rf5+ Ke3[] 12.Re5+ Kf3 13.Rf5+ Ke3[] 14.Re5+ Kf3 15.Rf5+ Ke3[] 16.Re5+ Kf3 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 16   00:00:00  289kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re7+ Kc6 4.Rc7+ Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Rc7+ Kd6 7.Rd7+ Ke5 8.Re7+ Kd5 9.Rd7+ Ke6 10.Re7+ Kd5 11.Rd7+ Ke6 12.Re7+ Kd5 13.Rd7+ Ke6 14.Re7+ Kd5 15.Rd7+ Ke6 16.Re7+ Kd5 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 17   00:00:00  319kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re7+ Kc6 4.Rc7+ Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Rc7+ Kd6 7.Rd7+ Ke5 8.Re7+ Kd5 9.Rd7+ Ke6 10.Re7+ Kd5 11.Rd7+ Ke6 12.Re7+ Kd5 13.Rd7+ Ke6 14.Re7+ Kd5 15.Rd7+ Ke6 16.Re7+ Kd5 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 18   00:00:00  355kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re7+ Kc6 4.Rc7+ Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Rc7+ Kd6 7.Rd7+ Ke5 8.Re7+ Kd5 9.Rd7+ Ke6 10.Re7+ Kd5 11.Rd7+ Ke6 12.Re7+ Kd5 13.Rd7+ Ke6 14.Re7+ Kd5 15.Rd7+ Ke6 16.Re7+ Kd5 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  426kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re7+ Kc6 4.Rc7+ Kb6 5.Rb7+ Kc5 6.Rc7+ Kd6 7.Rd7+ Ke5 8.Re7+ Kd5 9.Rd7+ Ke6 10.Re7+ Kd5 11.Rd7+ Ke6 12.Re7+ Kd5 13.Rd7+ Ke6 14.Re7+ Kd5 15.Rd7+ Ke6 16.Re7+ Kd5 
  -+  (-16.16)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  539kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kd5 3.Rd8+ Kc5 4.Rc8+ Kd4 5.Rd8+ Ke3 6.Re8+ Kd2 7.Rd8+ Ke2 8.Re8+ Kf2 9.Rf8+ Ke3[] 10.Re8+ Kd2 11.Rd8+ Ke2 12.Re8+ Kf2 13.Rf8+ Ke3[] 14.Re8+ Kd2 15.Rd8+ Ke2 16.Re8+ Kf2 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  1020kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kf5 3.Rf8+ Ke4[] 4.Re8+ Kd3 5.Rd8+ Ke2 6.Re8+ Kf2 7.Rf8+ Ke1[] 8.Re8+ Kd2 9.Rd8+ Kc3 10.Rc8+ Kb2 11.Rb8+ Kc2 12.Rc8+ Kd3 13.Rd8+ Ke2 14.Re8+ Kf2 15.Rf8+ Ke1[] 16.Re8+ Kd2 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 22   00:00:03  2128kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+ Kf5 3.Rf8+ Ke5[] 4.Re8+ Kd4 5.Rd8+ Kc5 6.Rc8+ Kd4 7.Rd8+ Kc5 8.Rc8+ Kd4 9.Rd8+ Kc5 10.Rc8+ Kd4 11.Rd8+ Kc5 12.Rc8+ Kd4 13.Rd8+ Kc5 14.Rc8+ Kd4 15.Rd8+ Kc5 16.Rc8+ Kd4 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 23   00:00:03  2156kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+[] Kf5 3.Rf8+[] Ke4[] 4.Re8+ Kd3 5.Rd8+ Kc3 6.Rc8+ Kd4 7.Rd8+ Kc5 8.Rc8+ Kd4 9.Rd8+ Kc5 10.Rc8+ Kd4 11.Rd8+ Kc5 12.Rc8+ Kd4 13.Rd8+ Kc5 14.Rc8+ Kd4 15.Rd8+ Kc5 16.Rc8+ Kd4 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 24   00:00:03  2330kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+[] Kf5 3.Rf8+[] Kg4[] 4.Rg8+ Kf4 5.Rf8+ Ke3[] 6.Re8+ Kd3 7.Rd8+ Kc3 8.Rc8+ Kd4 9.Rd8+ Kc3 10.Rc8+ Kd4 11.Rd8+ Kc3 12.Rc8+ Kd4 13.Rd8+ Kc3 14.Rc8+ Kd4 15.Rd8+ Kc3 16.Rc8+ Kd4 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 25   00:00:03  2578kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+[] Kf5 3.Rf8+[] Kg4[] 4.Rg8+ Kf4 5.Rf8+ Ke3[] 6.Re8+ Kd3 7.Rd8+ Ke2 8.Re8+ Kf3 9.Rf8+ Ke3[] 10.Re8+ Kd3 11.Rd8+ Ke2 12.Re8+ Kf3 13.Rf8+ Ke3[] 14.Re8+ Kd3 15.Rd8+ Ke2 16.Re8+ Kf3 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 26   00:00:04  2752kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+[] Kd5 3.Rd8+ Ke4 4.Re8+ Kd4 5.Rd8+ Ke5 6.Re8+ Kd4 7.Rd8+ Ke5 8.Re8+ Kd4 9.Rd8+ Ke5 10.Re8+ Kd4 11.Rd8+ Ke5 12.Re8+ Kd4 13.Rd8+ Ke5 14.Re8+ Kd4 15.Rd8+ Ke5 16.Re8+ Kd4 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 27   00:00:05  3214kN
1...f1Q 2.Re8+[] Kf6 3.Rf8+ Kg5[] 4.Rg8+ Kf4 5.Rf8+ Kg4[] 6.Rg8+ Kf3 7.Rf8+ Ke4[] 8.Re8+ Kd4 9.Rd8+ Ke5 10.Re8+ Kf6 11.Rf8+ Kg5[] 12.Rg8+ Kf4 13.Rf8+ Kg4[] 14.Rg8+ Kf3 15.Rf8+ Ke4[] 16.Re8+ Kd4 
  -+  (-16.17)   Depth: 28   00:00:06  4380kN
1...f1R 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re3 Re1 4.Rc3 Rg6 5.Rb3 Re5 6.Rb7+ Ke6 7.Rh7 Reg5 8.Rh4 Rg4 9.Rh8 Rg2+ 10.Kh3 Rg1 11.Kh2 R6g2+ 12.Kh3 Rg8 13.Rh6+ R8g6 14.Kh2 Rxh6+ 15.Kxg1 Rf6 16.Kg2 Rf5 
  -+  (-16.88)   Depth: 28   00:00:23  17020kN
1...f1R 2.Re8+ Kf6 3.Rd8 Rc1[] 4.Rb8 Rg6[] 5.Rb6+ Kg7 6.Rb7+ Kg8 7.Rb8+ Kh7 8.Rb5 Rcc6 9.Rh5+ Rh6 10.Rxh6+ Rxh6+ 11.Kg3 Re6 12.Kf3 Re1 13.Kf4 Kg7 14.Kf5 Re8 15.Kg5 Re4 16.Kf5 Re8 
  -+  (-#18)   Depth: 29   00:00:29  20294kN
1...f1R 2.Re8+ Kf6 3.Rd8 Rc1[] 4.Rb8 Rg6[] 5.Rb6+ Kg7 6.Rb7+ Kh6 7.Rb5 Rcg1 8.Ra5 R1g2+ 9.Kh3 R2g5 10.Rxg5 Rxg5 11.Kh4 Rg6 12.Kh3 Rg5 13.Kh4 Rg6 14.Kh3 Rg5 15.Kh4 Rg6 16.Kh3 Rg5 
  -+  (-#16)   Depth: 30   00:01:00  33188kN
1...f1R 2.Re8+ Kd7[] 3.Re3 Re1 4.Rc3 Rg6 5.Rb3 Re5 6.Rh3 Re2+ 7.Kh1 Ke6 8.Rh5 Re1+ 9.Kh2 Reg1 10.Rc5 R1g5 11.Rxg5 Rxg5 12.Kh1 Kd5 13.Kh2 Kd4 14.Kh1 Rg6 15.Kh2 Ke4 16.Kh3 Kf4 
  -+  (-#16)   Depth: 31   00:01:23  39492kN
1...f1R 2.Re8+ Kd7 3.Re3 Re1 4.Rc3 Rg6 5.Rb3 Re5 6.Rh3 Re2+ 7.Kh1 Ke6 8.Rh5 Re1+ 9.Kh2 Reg1 10.Rc5 R1g5 11.Rxg5 Rxg5 12.Kh1 Rf5 13.Kg2 Kf6 14.Kg3 Kg6 15.Kh2 Rf4 16.Kh1 Kf6 
  -+  (-#15)   Depth: 32   00:01:39  44949kN
I'd say that if you want to test F15 you'll need to come up with more challenging positions. ;)
Top
BBauer
Posts: 658
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by BBauer »

IMHO you omitted the last position. Why?
[D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Can Fritz15/Rybka/Junior solve it?
Kind regards
Bernhard
Top
tpoppins
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:11 pm
Location: upstate

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by tpoppins »

BBauer wrote:IMHO you omitted the last position. Why?
Bernhard
I didn't recognize "Selbstpatt durch Unterverwandlung" as a link to a position (the other four links were in the internationally-recognizable "player 1 - player 2, location, date" format).
BBauer wrote:[D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Can Fritz15/Rybka/Junior solve it?
I don't have Junior. As expected, with and without tablebases F15 fails to see the 1.g8=B! draw and reports that Black mates in 15 instead.

But that's nothing to worry about, of course. All Vas and Chessbase have to do is release an elephant dart gun plugin for F15 later on.
Top
BBauer
Posts: 658
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by BBauer »

tpoppins wrote:
BBauer wrote:IMHO you omitted the last position. Why?
Bernhard
I didn't recognize "Selbstpatt durch Unterverwandlung" as a link to a position (the other four links were in the internationally-recognizable "player 1 - player 2, location, date" format).
BBauer wrote:[D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Can Fritz15/Rybka/Junior solve it?
I don't have Junior. As expected, with and without tablebases F15 fails to see the 1.g8=B! draw and reports that Black mates in 15 instead.

But that's nothing to worry about, of course. All Vas and Chessbase have to do is release an elephant dart gun plugin for F15 later on.
Or they may come out with Crafty25 as Fritz16 :D :D
Kind regards
Bernhard
Top
Norm Pollock
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:15 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by Norm Pollock »

BBauer wrote: Or they may come out with Crafty25 as Fritz16 :D :D
Kind regards
Bernhard
Or CB could fix F15's B problem, but introduce a Q-side castling problem. :D
Top
BBauer
Posts: 658
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by BBauer »

Norm Pollock wrote:
BBauer wrote: Or they may come out with Crafty25 as Fritz16 :D :D
Kind regards
Bernhard
Or CB could fix F15's B problem, but introduce a Q-side castling problem. :D
I strongly disagree.
The way to go is
no bishobpromotion gives at least 20 elo
no knightpromotion gives at least 50 elo
no rookpromotion gives at least 10 elo
no queenpromotion gives at least 100 elo
summs up to at least 180 elo :wink:
Kind regards
Bernhard
PS: [D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
the obove position is a full point solution.
g8B wins every other move loses.
Top
A Distel
Posts: 3618
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by A Distel »

tpoppins wrote:
BBauer wrote:IMHO you omitted the last position. Why?
Bernhard
I didn't recognize "Selbstpatt durch Unterverwandlung" as a link to a position (the other four links were in the internationally-recognizable "player 1 - player 2, location, date" format).
BBauer wrote:[D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Can Fritz15/Rybka/Junior solve it?
I don't have Junior. As expected, with and without tablebases F15 fails to see the 1.g8=B! draw and reports that Black mates in 15 instead.

But that's nothing to worry about, of course. All Vas and Chessbase have to do is release an elephant dart gun plugin for F15 later on.
We'd Better Watch Out!!! Chessbase gonna release an elephant dart gun.

Image
The road to chaos is filled with political correctness.
― Tadros
Top
A Distel
Posts: 3618
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Fritz 15 is unsuitable for analysis.

Post by A Distel »

BBauer wrote:
tpoppins wrote:
BBauer wrote:IMHO you omitted the last position. Why?
Bernhard
I didn't recognize "Selbstpatt durch Unterverwandlung" as a link to a position (the other four links were in the internationally-recognizable "player 1 - player 2, location, date" format).
BBauer wrote:[D]1r5K/6PP/8/8/8/1k4q1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Can Fritz15/Rybka/Junior solve it?
I don't have Junior. As expected, with and without tablebases F15 fails to see the 1.g8=B! draw and reports that Black mates in 15 instead.

But that's nothing to worry about, of course. All Vas and Chessbase have to do is release an elephant dart gun plugin for F15 later on.
Or they may come out with Crafty25 as Fritz16 :D :D
Kind regards
Bernhard
:lol:
The road to chaos is filled with political correctness.
― Tadros
Top

Return to “Computer Chess Club: General Topics”