Can I have a comprehensive list of original engines?

[TShackel]

Hi,

Does anyone have a list they can give me (ie copy/paste), that is a list of only original engines rated between 2800 and 3400 depending on what rating list you use?

So again I was hoping for a list of engines rated between 2800 and 3400 that are original engines. And I include derivative programs as original if they are rated substantially higher. For instance stockfish was derived from glaurung, and is now rated 300-400 points higher so I would consider that original. But if something is a cheap stockfish or ippo clone I don't want it on this list of engines.

If you can help me with that list of engines that would be most appreciated.

Sincerely,

Tim.

P.S. - My intent is not to start a debate about which programs are original or clones. If you want that then go to the engine origins forum.

[Graham Banks]

Good luck Tim.

I don't think you'll ever get agreement over this.
Firstly there needs to be a definition of original that is accepted by the community (or most programmers).

Once that happens, how does one know for sure how original any closed source engine is according to the accepted definition?

[Dann Corbit]

Nearly all engines are original.
Nearly no engines are original.
Both statements are true.

Every serious author (excluding folks like "Mr Dull Propeller") puts significant original efforts into producing a chess engine.

Every serious author takes ideas from other authors. Otherwise all chess engines would be doing mini-max and searching 5 plies in an hour.

[TShackel]

Okay. So the topic is subjective. If someone is nice to give me a list of what "they alone" think are the top original engines from 2800-3400 I'd appreciate it.

And I didn't say everyone had to come to unaminous agreement. I was just hoping someone more educated than me could give me their personal views and provide me a list.

Sincerely,

Tim.

[Evert]

So again I was hoping for a list of engines rated between 2800 and 3400 that are original engines. And I include derivative programs as original if they are rated substantially higher.

Define what you mean by original. The first statement seems clear enough (seems), but the second one makes ad-hoc and arbitrary exceptions.

Perhaps try the following: a list of all engines within some rating bracket (define the baseline, I can make a list with 4000+ rated engines simply by adding a constant to all CCRL ratings) that are either

1. Entirely original, ie, not derived from another engine.
2. Derivatives (forks) of engines that are no longer under active development by their original author.

This is probably close to what you want. It may not always be obvious if an engine is still under active development or not, particularly if it's closed source, but derivatives of closed-source programs are probably not what you're looking for either.

[TShackel]

Define what you mean by original. The first statement seems clear enough (seems), but the second one makes ad-hoc and arbitrary exceptions.

Perhaps try the following: a list of all engines within some rating bracket (define the baseline, I can make a list with 4000+ rated engines simply by adding a constant to all CCRL ratings) that are either

1. Entirely original, ie, not derived from another engine.
2. Derivatives (forks) of engines that are no longer under active development by their original author.

This is probably close to what you want. It may not always be obvious if an engine is still under active development or not, particularly if it's closed source, but derivatives of closed-source programs are probably not what you're looking for either.

Yes, you have described what I'm looking for. A rating list from 2800 - 3400. I want them to be strong and threatening to compete with the top three engines, which is why I suggest that rating bracket. I definitely want entirely original engines included (ie engines which are not derived from any other engines), but I also want derivative programs that have increased the rating substantially from the derivative program's rating. I would definitely take Houdini 4.0 and not exclude that because it increased its rating, same with stockfish. However, if it's easier for you then just a list with completely original engines (not derived from anything else will be fine. But ia more complete list for me would include certain derivatives that have substantially increased rating and have done good original work.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Sincerely,

Tim.

[Ferdy]

Hi,

Does anyone have a list they can give me (ie copy/paste), that is a list of only original engines rated between 2800 and 3400 depending on what rating list you use?

So again I was hoping for a list of engines rated between 2800 and 3400 that are original engines. And I include derivative programs as original if they are rated substantially higher. For instance stockfish was derived from glaurung, and is now rated 300-400 points higher so I would consider that original. But if something is a cheap stockfish or ippo clone I don't want it on this list of engines.

If you can help me with that list of engines that would be most appreciated.

Sincerely,

Tim.

P.S. - My intent is not to start a debate about which programs are original or clones. If you want that then go to the engine origins forum.

Let me start this.
Crafty
Arasan
Gaviota
Scorpio
SmarThink
Shredder
Hiarcs
Junior

[TShackel]

Let me start this.
Crafty
Arasan
Gaviota
Scorpio
SmarThink

Thanks for contributing. Some of tthose engines however are not in the 2800 - 3400 elo range. But I do appreciate the effort.

[Ferdy]

Let me start this.
Crafty
Arasan
Gaviota
Scorpio
SmarThink

Thanks for contributing. Some of tthose engines however are not in the 2800 - 3400 elo range. But I do appreciate the effort.

Have a look at CCRL 40/40.

[TShackel]

Have a look at CCRL 40/40.

Hi. My bad, I suppose that does fit the criteria. CCRL tends to be inflated a little bit more than other than other lists, so on other lists I think crafty and arasan etc. would be lower in rating below the 2800 mark. But thank you, and CCRL is a good rating list.

Sincerely,

Tim.