[d]r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4
Which side favours that one?
What do you mean when you say a position "favors" one side or another? (Serious question---please consider deeply.) The value of any position is simply White wins, Black wins or draw.
More specifically, what does "White is better by 60 cp" mean? Is this different from "White is ahead by 20 cp"? Is it different from "Black is ahead by 20 cp"?
Yeah, I think white wins that, as 60cps, if the assessment is even very slightly correct, should be just above or near the winning margin in the opening.
Fischer also claimed white wins that.
And Fischer was able to whitewash his direct opponents at the height of his strength, so I am inclined to believe even only his words here.
[quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]Let's be specific.
Two Knight's Defence:
Unfortunately, I am very much afraid white has substantial advantage above, in
the range of at least 60cps, so winning or close to winning.[/quote]
60cps looks a bit high to me,
but anyway, yep, i prefer ...Bc5 Italian
above the Nf6 gambit line (2knightsdefense)
jefk wrote: it would depend on some parameters, eg such as you were suggesting in your 'compendium' (2010; is there any update ?),
No update. Work discontinued.
Going on holidays.
You can not expect an engine that is tuned with 10-moves or longer book, receiving ready-made opening positions, to be able to make sense which move is best in the early opening, at move 2,3,5.
After 10-15 years of tuning with a very shallow book, and after the engine's search is improved to the extent that it reaches some 100-150 plies on average, and after the engine's evaluation is drastically improved from current top engines'evals - yes, in 15-20 years time, after all those changes have been introduced, I will gladly accept engine advice in the early opening.
[d]r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4
Which side favours that one?
What do you mean when you say a position "favors" one side or another? (Serious question---please consider deeply.) The value of any position is simply White wins, Black wins or draw.
More specifically, what does "White is better by 60 cp" mean? Is this different from "White is ahead by 20 cp"? Is it different from "Black is ahead by 20 cp"?
Yeah, I think white wins that, as 60cps, if the assessment is even very slightly correct, should be just above or near the winning margin in the opening.
Fischer also claimed white wins that.
And Fischer was able to whitewash his direct opponents at the height of his strength, so I am inclined to believe even only his words here.
Don't think you've really addressed my question. What do humans mean when they say a position favors White or favors Black? What does the statement mean?
If I understand correctly, your assertion is that with optimal play by both sides, the Two Knights position you posted is a win for White. My guess is that it is a draw, as are almost all standard opening positions.
In any case, Stockfish's evaluation based on its search is currently
The Two Knights' is probably equal but the path to equality is a narrow one and there are a lot of ways to go wrong.
I don't think search from this position is going to show you the optimal path in a reasonable amount of time.
Also, a more general point: strong GMs and correspondence players come up with opening novelties all the time. Some of them significantly change the evaluation of opening moves. How do you think they find these moves? The answer is: very, very deep search and analysis, using computers (nowadays) and far more time than you get in a OTB game with the clock ticking. So a computer that does not have any knowledge about such moves (the ones that are known from published games) will be at a disadvantage.
jdart wrote:The Two Knights' is probably equal but the path to equality is a narrow one and there are a lot of ways to go wrong.
This is an interesting observation, since it suggests that we can quantify something. For example, one could attempt to measure the fraction of legal moves that alter the theoretical value of the position. Some positions would then be more "volatile" than others ---but still each position has a theoretical evaluation of +∞, -∞ or 0.
[d]r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4
Which side favours that one?
What do you mean when you say a position "favors" one side or another? (Serious question---please consider deeply.) The value of any position is simply White wins, Black wins or draw.
More specifically, what does "White is better by 60 cp" mean? Is this different from "White is ahead by 20 cp"? Is it different from "Black is ahead by 20 cp"?
Yeah, I think white wins that, as 60cps, if the assessment is even very slightly correct, should be just above or near the winning margin in the opening.
Fischer also claimed white wins that.
And Fischer was able to whitewash his direct opponents at the height of his strength, so I am inclined to believe even only his words here.
Don't think you've really addressed my question. What do humans mean when they say a position favors White or favors Black? What does the statement mean?
If I understand correctly, your assertion is that with optimal play by both sides, the Two Knights position you posted is a win for White. My guess is that it is a draw, as are almost all standard opening positions.
In any case, Stockfish's evaluation based on its search is currently
