Komodo 7

[Ozymandias]

The human can choose the opening position that he play on both sides(so he is going to get it with both sides) with the following restrictions that the position is something that humans play often and not too imbalanced or too drawish.


If there are less than 50 games when players with rating of at least 2500 played the position in years 2012-2013 then the position did not happen often enough to be allowed as starting position.

If analysis by some top program (stockfish,Komodo or Houdini) shows evaluation of more than 1 pawns after a long search of 24 hours then we decide that the position is too imbalanced.

Otherwise look at the relevant database with at least 50 games and we have the following cases:

1)The score in the relevant game is at least 60% for white or at least 60% for black so we consider the position too imbalanced

2)More than 60% of the games are draws so we consider the position to be too drawish.

That could be a backup plan, but the reason for playing with a handicap is to just level the field. If it could be done simply, with asymmetric TCs, there'd be no need for more elaborated schemes.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I'm not against handicaps, just material handicaps. Asymmetric time controls would be nice.

Agreed....

Material handicaps are stupid,it's an abomination of chess....
Dr.D

[lkaufman]

I'm not against handicaps, just material handicaps. Asymmetric time controls would be nice.

Agreed....

Material handicaps are stupid,it's an abomination of chess....
Dr.D

For equal chances, a 2600 level GM would need at least 3 hours to one minute time odds, maybe more (Komodo 5, still on one core (on a laptop), defeated GM Walter Browne in a game at odds of White, 30 to one minutes time odds, and no opening book). This seems a bit pointless to me; everyone knows computers calculate faster than humans. The interesting question is how much better with equal time? There are other solutions besides material handicaps. They include extra moves (i.e. computer must move knight out and then back again for first two moves), forfeiture of castling, draw odds, White pieces plus no book after move 3 plus time odds (as in Ehlvest-Rybka match), and designated bad openings for computer (example: Black must play ...f6 and ...Kf7 as first two moves.
Do any of these (or any other) ideas appeal to those reading this thread? I ask because although Dzindzi may be too ill for this, I expect we will have matches with GMs in the near future.

[Ozymandias]

For equal chances, a 2600 level GM would need at least 3 hours to one minute time odds, maybe more

That's pretty much what I had in mind, give the GM as much time as he asks, and take from the engine's clock as much as possible. 1' + 0'' may be dangerous because of time losses. 30'' + 0.5'' would be better. And let Komodo run on a Surface 3, without book or TBs, just the engine. That should be equal enough, so as to avoid alternative measures.

[lkaufman]

For equal chances, a 2600 level GM would need at least 3 hours to one minute time odds, maybe more

That's pretty much what I had in mind, give the GM as much time as he asks, and take from the engine's clock as much as possible. 1' + 0'' may be dangerous because of time losses. 30'' + 0.5'' would be better. And let Komodo run on a Surface 3, without book or TBs, just the engine. That should be equal enough, so as to avoid alternative measures.

That should be fair enough, but is it interesting to see how badly we can make Komodo play by giving it no time? I think it's more interesting to see how well it can play with reasonable time to think, which requires some other type of handicap to avoid one-sided games.

[Ozymandias]

I think it's more interesting to see how well it can play with reasonable time to think, which requires some other type of handicap to avoid one-sided games.

You can always create an account at Infinitychess, and enter as engine player on the next Freestyle tournament, for that. No need for handicaps then, and it would shine brighter than against human opponents. A GM would never make the engine sweat, unless it's forced to play the white side of the Cochrane gambit or something like that, which is basically the same as material handicap.

[lkaufman]

I think it's more interesting to see how well it can play with reasonable time to think, which requires some other type of handicap to avoid one-sided games.

You can always create an account at Infinitychess, and enter as engine player on the next Freestyle tournament, for that. No need for handicaps then, and it would shine brighter than against human opponents. A GM would never make the engine sweat, unless it's forced to play the white side of the Cochrane gambit or something like that, which is basically the same as material handicap.

Freestyle is not computer against human, it is computer against computer with some human intervention. The idea of a Komodo vs. GM match would be to try to determine just how much stronger the computer is than a top human player, since this is only known indirectly now by computer vs computer games with some known ancient reference point. Time odds won't tell us anything new, since we can just calculate what time odds would bring Komodo down to the level of the version of Fritz that beat Kramnik over a decade ago. The handicap has to involve starting the computer with a bad position of some sort in order to tell us anything new.

[Vinvin]

The interesting question is how much better with equal time?
There are other solutions besides material handicaps.
- They include extra moves (i.e. computer must move knight out and then back again for first two moves),
- forfeiture of castling,
- draw odds,
- White pieces plus no book after move 3 plus time odds (as in Ehlvest-Rybka match),
- and designated bad openings for computer (example: Black must play ...f6 and ...Kf7 as first two moves.

Do any of these (or any other) ideas appeal to those reading this thread? I ask because although Dzindzi may be too ill for this, I expect we will have matches with GMs in the near future.

I found all of them very interesting
There were no comp-human for a long time now. Do you know some GMs how would accept to play ?

[lkaufman]

The interesting question is how much better with equal time?
There are other solutions besides material handicaps.
- They include extra moves (i.e. computer must move knight out and then back again for first two moves),
- forfeiture of castling,
- draw odds,
- White pieces plus no book after move 3 plus time odds (as in Ehlvest-Rybka match),
- and designated bad openings for computer (example: Black must play ...f6 and ...Kf7 as first two moves.

Do any of these (or any other) ideas appeal to those reading this thread? I ask because although Dzindzi may be too ill for this, I expect we will have matches with GMs in the near future.

I found all of them very interesting
There were no comp-human for a long time now. Do you know some GMs how would accept to play ?

Sure, it's just a matter of agreeing to financial conditions. Many GMs in the 2600s will play for reasonable stakes; most in the 2700s will not.

[overlord]

Interesting match (let´s say 12 games) which we would accept could be Komodo 7 on monster hardware against centaur (we, Etaoin Shrdlu, have just 4 core machines). If someone can sponsor the match, fo course