Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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phenri
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by phenri »

hgm wrote:Well, the picture does not tell everything. Is this just interactive analysis with multiple engines? Or is the idea that you have 'spectator engines' analyzing when a 'main engine' is doing something else (like playing against a human, or on an ICS)?
It is only a spectator, when I watch a game online or offline.
hgm wrote: As to the book:

OK, I see multiple sets of book moves are listed in the display. Is displaying them all you want to do, or should they actually be used for something?
The three books together are fictitious. Only the first is possible. The idea of ​​having several books at the same time, in addition to compare and judge a book, this would avoid merging them with some books could be unhealthy.

HGM, If you have windows, you could try CB reader 12 (freeware) http://en.chessbase.com/pages/download . It's the same thing Chessbase12 but with less features. This will give you an overview.
Last edited by phenri on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
kasinp
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by kasinp »

This was just discussed in another thread, and the concensus seemed to be that this would actually be a rather undesirable thing, which serious testers would never use. Because it corrupts the test results by awarding wins to engines in end-games they would never be able to win by themselves (and draws in end-games they would have lost).

I see this differently. Tablebases contain solved positions. I am not interested in seeing engines play them (or misplay them). Once in tablebases it is only the engine that can corrupt the one logical result of the game. And if the engine fails to read the result as published, I will be happy to let the GUI do it.

Many testers and chess players are interested in evaluating positions.
We use engines as tools to get closer to the truth. Our results can only be contaminated if engines fail to recognize tablebase facts.

PK
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hgm
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by hgm »

Well, adjudication of engine-engine games does not have any effect on, and thus is not of any relevance for interactive analysis, so you seem to be talking about something entirely different. If you would be interested in seeing the tablebase moves in interactive analysis, the logical and obvious solution seems to use an engine that supports tablebases.

I don't think it would be very wise to use a stupid engine without tablebase support to analyze 7-men end-games, let it make its stupid plans, and follow them untill you reach the 5-men stage on the board, to only let the GUI tel you: "Oh, now it is lost in 23", while the original 7-men position was draw. EGT probing in the GUI can never save you, it can only inform you after the fact that you are dead. That doesn't seem like 'getting closer to the truth'.
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hgm
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by hgm »

phenri wrote: It is only a spectator, when I watch a game online or offline.
OK, so the 3 engines you showed are in fact equivalent, doing the same thing. WinBoard can do this with upto 2 engines. I am not sure how much demand there would be to increase that to 3 or 4. (You would be the first person I encountered that wanted that.)
The idea of ​​having several books at the same time, in addition to compare and judge a book, this would avoid merging them with some books could be unhealthy.
OK, so it is just for displaying, and possibly editing.
phenri
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by phenri »

phenri wrote:A feature that is missing for me is the support of CTG book, and secondly the ability to open several books in the same chessboard.
Finally unlike kibitzer's engines, something that is expected for several years.
hgm wrote:
phenri wrote: It is only a spectator, when I watch a game online or offline.
OK, so the 3 engines you showed are in fact equivalent, doing the same thing. WinBoard can do this with upto 2 engines. I am not sure how much demand there would be to increase that to 3 or 4. (You would be the first person I encountered that wanted that.)
You misunderstood me. You asked me what a "kibitzer" and I replied with a screenshot. Several engines as a "Spectator" is not a feature I requested since it exists for many years. It is a fact

I mention kibitzer to illustrate my point. The possibility as for the engines "spectator", adding several books to read/edit.
jefk
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by jefk »

a few points, yes running several engines is the future,
but how to combine them is a different story. I have tried
chesscombi, first 14 ply after book komodo and then stockfish
and that worked but during the whole game both engines
were running, on 4 threads, only first the komdo moves
were selected, and then Stockfish. Wasn't optimal for me
(on ICC) because Sfish seems to perform slightly better
with 8 threads instead of 4 even although then hyperthreading
is involved (i have 4 cores on my comp); may be due to
turbomode, but it even then apparently it makes better use
of the possibility of hyperthreading than Komodo..
An interface could solve such a problem, eg using certain
engines during separate phases of the game.

Also, in the Shredder Classic interface there is the option
of 'hyperbrain' combining the result of two engines. In
future you might even combine the result of more engines
not sure how to do this in a good way though.

Then about the book, it looks like .ctg is becoming de facto
standard, but i'm not sure if thios .ctg really is the best.
(it lacks certain features i think) Then, even although Aquarium
can load .ctg, its proprietary Chessbase format i suspect which
is raising some objections towards a standard format.

Then about the 3D look, for some human players this
sometimes is more pleasant, programming it as nice
as Chessbase will not be easy (openGL or so ?) but i
mentioned chessclient, which has a rather simple 3D option
which for me looks better than the ChessPartner 3D option,
and .. the source code is available for some of you geeks:
http://home.centurytel.net/khb/cclient/
(i configured the Cclient 3D interface myself, colours, piece set
and board shape, and it now looks playable for me, maybe i
should insert an image here later, but currently have html off

Finally about Fics (2D) interfaces, besides the ICC default
'Dasher' there are some more, such as Thief, iNemesis, Babaschess
so if 'we' want to think about a general purpose GUI then
the programmers might also like to have a look at them.
(many piece/board configurations, windows, and so on;
for me its a bit superfluous, when playing as human i like
it simple, wooden colours, standard piece set and
not to much other info).

jef



jef
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hgm
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by hgm »

phenri wrote:You misunderstood me. You asked me what a "kibitzer" and I replied with a screenshot. Several engines as a "Spectator" is not a feature I requested since it exists for many years. It is a fact

I mention kibitzer to illustrate my point. The possibility as for the engines "spectator", adding several books to read/edit.
Well, I am sorry I am so slow. The problem is that I have no idea what 'kibitzing' means, other than using the 'kibitz' command on an ICS to send text messages to other people observing or playing the same game. Which obviously is not what you mean here.

From the picture I notice there are three panes with engine output, but the left one says 'Engine', while the other two say 'Kibitzer', although they are obviously also engines. My guess is that the Kibitzer engines are just running analysis of whatever position is displayed on the board. But apparently the one in the left pane is doing something else. But what? And what determines if the board position chances? Does the user have to move the pieces, or do one or more of the engines do that, or are moves read from a file, or received from a Chess server?
phenri
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by phenri »

The main engine is mainly same as in winboard or other interface: Infinite Analysis, Blitz Game, Long Game,

Coach: Threat, hint, suggestion.
Post-mortem: Full analysis, Blunuder Check, Deep Position analysis.

Play Chess online mode with Engine room; engine vs engine, engine vs freestyle, freestyle vs freestyle, human vs ..., etc

I do not want to promote this interface, and if there were a real alternative, I'd be the first happy.
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Ponti
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by Ponti »

A sexy female voice - I hate Fritz´s voice.

Voice recognition to input moves.

Good 3D graphics - I want to play chess using my 55" 3D-TV.

Built-in capability to access FICS _AND_ICC. Not all the GUIs can do that.

More complex ways to view statistics of my games.

Possibility to automate updates of games, weekly (TWIC) ? I have to do it manually, and I often forget it...

Built-in option to normalize PGN files (i have to do it using another program).

Built-in option to use .ctg opening books, or to convert it to another format.

GUI must be cross-plataform, without the need to purchase 3 different versions (is that possible?), Win/ Linux/ OS/X.

Easy way to change colors / fonts / boards / pieces / layouts, and many ready-made options. (many GUIs already have that capability, I know).
A. Ponti
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hgm
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Re: Most wanted missing features for a chess GUI

Post by hgm »

phenri wrote:The main engine is mainly same as in winboard or other interface: Infinite Analysis, Blitz Game, Long Game,

Coach: Threat, hint, suggestion.
Post-mortem: Full analysis, Blunuder Check, Deep Position analysis.

Play Chess online mode with Engine room; engine vs engine, engine vs freestyle, freestyle vs freestyle, human vs ..., etc

I do not want to promote this interface, and if there were a real alternative, I'd be the first happy.
And in all those modes you want one or two extra engines to analyze the positions of the games that develop, in real time?