ChessGUI 0.245f is available

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hgm
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by hgm » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:42 am

Matthias Gemuh wrote:Among Top-10 engines, SF is the only one whose scores lean outside the window.
For that reason alone, many people resent using SF for analysis.
That "winning probabilities" stuff is irrelevant in this discussion.
Well, so if the Stockfish scores correctly represent centi-Pawns, it means the disease is already spreading...

I think this is really very bad, and not in the interest of anyone.

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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:18 pm

hgm wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:Among Top-10 engines, SF is the only one whose scores lean outside the window.
For that reason alone, many people resent using SF for analysis.
That "winning probabilities" stuff is irrelevant in this discussion.
Well, so if the Stockfish scores correctly represent centi-Pawns, it means the disease is already spreading...

I think this is really very bad, and not in the interest of anyone.
Make it a much bigger IF !

SF punches hard, but has inflated scores. Watch chat when SF is playing and you'll see how uncomfortable SF scores are perceived by many people to be.
Nevertheless, congrats to SF team for the strength of the engine.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by hgm » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Well, I don't want to be drawn into a discussion which engine is at fault here. The fact that there is such a discussion only illustrates how undesirable this situation is.

But providing a GUI option to arbitrarily multiply scores only makes it worse, IMO. Some people would scale Stockfish scores, because they consider that to be at fault, other people apparently blame Houdini, and scale that to conform with Stockfish. People will copy-paste from engine-output of their GUIs into forums, and it will not be clear what factor they had been applying. Most people might not even know that this is a problem, and be totally taken by surprise when they see others post scaled output.

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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:42 pm

Martin Thoresen wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote: I don't think you earnestly expected me to reply to any of them. Why should I ?
I had a highlighting colour in your chat in Stage 1 of your Season 2 TCEC.
From Stage 2 onwards, you disqualified me from having a green colour in your chat. Even when I specifically asked for a green colour, you refused giving it, pointing me to a rule you had made that permits only engine authors to have a highlighting colour.
I have so far invested dozens of hours tweaking ChessGUI to meet your TCEC demands. Why should I continue doing the dirty work back-stage when a mere green colour in the chat is too much to honour me with ?
I understand that no other GUI is able to replace ChessGUI in TCEC at the
moment, so use it till alternatives become available.

Matthias.
Are you serious? You don't reply because you didn't get a green color in the chat? Wow. Just wow. Even my sister didn't get a green color.

But thanks for clarifying that you feel you are doing the TCEC dirty work. Makes my choice easier.
Martin and Matthias - I consider you both as good computer chess friends.
Sometimes things can get out of hand in the heat of the moment.

For the benefit of the computer chess community, I would like to see you back cooperating with each other.
Matthias should certainly be given his expected status in the chatroom, and TCEC would be best sticking with ChessGUI.

Sincerely hoping that you can resolve your differences here.

Graham.
My email addresses:
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Modern Times wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:I have so far invested dozens of hours tweaking ChessGUI to meet your TCEC demands.
Matthias.
You've done an amazing job as the unsung hero behind making TCEC possible with ChessGUI. I don't think there are any other GUIs at the moment that provide all the relevant functionality.

In terms of CCRL 40/40, I'd guess that your GUI provides about 80% of the games every week on average. Sometimes more.
My focus in future will in making ChessGUI more suitable for CCRL indeed.
Although I appreciate your sentiment, I really don't think we should be singled out as special.
Lots of others use ChessGUI as well and they're equally important.

Take care,
Graham.
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:15 pm

Graham Banks wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:
My focus in future will in making ChessGUI more suitable for CCRL indeed.
Although I appreciate your sentiment, I really don't think we should be singled out as special.
Lots of others use ChessGUI as well and they're equally important.

Take care,
Graham.
Generally, if CCRL finds a feature useful, other users are likely to likewise find it useful too. :wink:
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

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Graham Banks
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:
My focus in future will in making ChessGUI more suitable for CCRL indeed.
Although I appreciate your sentiment, I really don't think we should be singled out as special.
Lots of others use ChessGUI as well and they're equally important.

Take care,
Graham.
Generally, if CCRL finds a feature useful, other users are likely to likewise find it useful too. :wink:
True. :)
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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:31 pm

hgm wrote:...
Well, for whom it is of any interest, there exists a simple pairing algorithm that works for any number of players (and can even be applied in real OTB tourneys without the aid of any computer):

Put all (N) Chess boards on a long table, ... .
Thanks for the algo ! I shall surely stare more closely at it when improving the pairing algos in ChessGUI.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

Martin Thoresen
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Martin Thoresen » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:02 am

Graham Banks wrote: Martin and Matthias - I consider you both as good computer chess friends.
Sometimes things can get out of hand in the heat of the moment.

For the benefit of the computer chess community, I would like to see you back cooperating with each other.
Matthias should certainly be given his expected status in the chatroom, and TCEC would be best sticking with ChessGUI.

Sincerely hoping that you can resolve your differences here.

Graham.
Graham, Graham... mediation requires a conflict - which I fail to find here.

There is a lot of people deserving some kind of special color in the chat - unfortunately the chat it is limited to 1 extra category excluding the admin (myself). For Season 2, this category was called "Season 2 Participant" in order to inform people in the chat that the green chatters were in fact authors of a participating engine. Hence, all other people who were not a programmer of the participating engines were removed from this list.

For Season 3 I have decided to call this group "VIP" in order to add more people to it. Matthias can be added if he still wants to, of course.

I have nothing more to add to this.

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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Graham Banks » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:19 am

Martin Thoresen wrote:
Graham Banks wrote: Martin and Matthias - I consider you both as good computer chess friends.
Sometimes things can get out of hand in the heat of the moment.

For the benefit of the computer chess community, I would like to see you back cooperating with each other.
Matthias should certainly be given his expected status in the chatroom, and TCEC would be best sticking with ChessGUI.

Sincerely hoping that you can resolve your differences here.

Graham.
Graham, Graham... mediation requires a conflict - which I fail to find here.

There is a lot of people deserving some kind of special color in the chat - unfortunately the chat it is limited to 1 extra category excluding the admin (myself). For Season 2, this category was called "Season 2 Participant" in order to inform people in the chat that the green chatters were in fact authors of a participating engine. Hence, all other people who were not a programmer of the participating engines were removed from this list.

For Season 3 I have decided to call this group "VIP" in order to add more people to it. Matthias can be added if he still wants to, of course.

I have nothing more to add to this.
No problem - was only trying to help.
Sounds like a good solution.
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