ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:47 am

Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:48 am

Hi Matthias.

I have such an important question as to the pace of short games, for example, 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes. Can you write or select any additional options, and like so please inscription that, because I noticed that very often the engines lose by "TIME", although evaluation is 0.00. Here is an example of the game.

[Event "Test Engine"]
[Site "ChessGUI"]
[Date "2014.11.18"]
[Round "20.1"]
[White "Komodo 8 x64"]
[Black "Sugar v2.0g x64"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Time "15:29:48"]
[ECO "A20"]
[Opening "King's English; A20"]
[TimeControl "300"]
[PlyCount "174"]
[Number "20"]
[Termination "time"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
[Variant "normal"]

{ Intel Core I7 2670 QM }
1.c4 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
2.g3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} Nf6 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
3.Bg2 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} Bc5 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
4.Nc3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} O-O {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
5.e3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
6.Nge2 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} a6 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
7.O-O {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} d6 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
8.h3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} Ba7 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
9.a3 {[%eval 7,17] [%emt 00:00:09]} Bd7 {(h5) [%eval -24,22] [%emt 00:00:11]}
10.b3 {(d4) [%eval 10,18] [%emt 00:00:09]} Qc8 {(h5) [%eval -21,24] [%emt 00:00:16]}
11.Kh2 {(Kh2) [%eval 14,19] [%emt 00:00:12]} Ne7 {(Ne7) [%eval -23,23] [%emt 00:00:08]}
12.d4 {(d4) [%eval 20,18] [%emt 00:00:07]} Ng6 {(c6) [%eval -27,24] [%emt 00:00:04]}
13.Nd5 {(a4) [%eval 18,19] [%emt 00:00:22]} Nxd5 {(Nxd5) [%eval -18,22] [%emt 00:00:05]}
14.cxd5 {(cxd5) [%eval 21,18] [%emt 00:00:02]} exd4 {(e4) [%eval -25,23] [%emt 00:00:09]}
15.Nxd4 {(Nxd4) [%eval 29,17] [%emt 00:00:02]} c6 {(c5) [%eval -18,23] [%emt 00:00:09]}
16.dxc6 {(Bb2) [%eval 33,18] [%emt 00:00:03]} bxc6 {(bxc6) [%eval -12,23] [%emt 00:00:07]}
17.e4 {(e4) [%eval 34,19] [%emt 00:00:11]} Rd8 {(Rb8) [%eval -26,22] [%emt 00:00:04]}
18.Bg5 {(Be3) [%eval 27,19] [%emt 00:00:14]} f6 {(f6) [%eval -28,20] [%emt 00:00:05]}
19.Be3 {(Be3) [%eval 23,19] [%emt 00:00:04]} c5 {(Ne5) [%eval -28,22] [%emt 00:00:07]}
20.Rc1 {(Rc1) [%eval 42,17] [%emt 00:00:04]} a5 {(a5) [%eval -29,20] [%emt 00:00:05]}
21.Qd2 {(Qd2) [%eval 41,17] [%emt 00:00:05]} a4 {(Bb6) [%eval -38,23] [%emt 00:00:12]}
22.b4 {(b4) [%eval 56,19] [%emt 00:00:05]} Qb8 {(Qb8) [%eval -42,23] [%emt 00:00:06]}
23.bxc5 {(bxc5) [%eval 77,19] [%emt 00:00:07]} dxc5 {(dxc5) [%eval -52,23] [%emt 00:00:05]}
24.Qa2 {(Qa2) [%eval 67,20] [%emt 00:00:03]} Kh8 {(Kh8) [%eval -77,24] [%emt 00:00:04]}
25.Ne6 {(Rb1) [%eval 79,22] [%emt 00:00:04]} Bxe6 {(Bxe6) [%eval -48,24] [%emt 00:00:04]}
26.Qxe6 {(Qxe6) [%eval 65,21] [%emt 00:00:02]} Qb3 {(Qb3) [%eval -68,25] [%emt 00:00:03]}
27.Qa6 {(Qa6) [%eval 79,22] [%emt 00:00:06]} Ne5 {(Ne5) [%eval -75,27] [%emt 00:00:08]}
28.Rb1 {(Rb1) [%eval 79,21] [%emt 00:00:02]} Qc4 {(Qc4) [%eval -81,27] [%emt 00:00:04]}
29.Qa5 {(Qb7) [%eval 67,21] [%emt 00:00:16]} Qf7 {[%eval -51,23] [%emt 00:00:03]}
30.Rfc1 {(Rfd1) [%eval 63,20] [%emt 00:00:02]} h6 {(g5) [%eval -20,22] [%emt 00:00:04]}
31.Rb5 {(Rd1) [%eval 34,18] [%emt 00:00:10]} c4 {(c4) [%eval -54,21] [%emt 00:00:04]}
32.Bxa7 {(Bxa7) [%eval 16,17] [%emt 00:00:02]} Re8 {(Re8) [%eval -56,24] [%emt 00:00:03]}
33.Rd5 {(Qb6) [%eval 15,18] [%emt 00:00:09]} Rxa7 {(Rxa7) [%eval -28,24] [%emt 00:00:04]}
34.Qd2 {(Qd2) [%eval 19,20] [%emt 00:00:04]} Rc7 {(Rc7) [%eval -26,26] [%emt 00:00:05]}
35.Rc3 {(Rc3) [%eval 17,20] [%emt 00:00:05]} Nd3 {(Nd3) [%eval -50,26] [%emt 00:00:06]}
36.Bf1 {(Bf1) [%eval 12,21] [%emt 00:00:10]} Rxe4 {(Rxe4) [%eval -50,27] [%emt 00:00:02]}
37.Rd8 {(Ra5) [%eval 11,20] [%emt 00:00:03]} Kh7 {(Kh7) [%eval -30,26] [%emt 00:00:03]}
38.Bxd3 {(Bxd3) [%eval 11,22] [%emt 00:00:18]} cxd3 {(cxd3) [%eval -31,28] [%emt 00:00:04]}
39.Rcxd3 {(Qxd3) [%eval 10,19] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qe6 {(Qe6) [%eval -22,25] [%emt 00:00:05]}
40.R3d4 {(R3d4) [%eval 9,22] [%emt 00:00:02]} Rc4 {(Rc4) [%eval -27,27] [%emt 00:00:03]}
41.Qd3 {(Qd3) [%eval 4,24] [%emt 00:00:03]} Rxd4 {(Rxd4) [%eval -28,28] [%emt 00:00:01]}
42.Rxd4 {(Rxd4) [%eval 13,22] [%emt 00:00:01]} f5 {(f5) [%eval -28,29] [%emt 00:00:09]}
43.Rd6 {(Rd5) [%eval 9,23] [%emt 00:00:02]} Qc4 {(Qb3) [%eval -9,27] [%emt 00:00:01]}
44.Qf3 {(Qf3) [%eval 18,21] [%emt 00:00:01]} f4 {(Qc5) [%eval -9,29] [%emt 00:00:01]}
45.g4 {(Qh5) [%eval 21,21] [%emt 00:00:02]} Rd4 {(Rd4) [%eval -9,27] [%emt 00:00:01]}
46.Rxd4 {(Rxd4) [%eval 7,21] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qxd4 {(Qxd4) [%eval -9,30] [%emt 00:00:01]}
47.Qe2 {(Kg2) [%eval 6,22] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kg8 {(Kh8) [%eval -9,28] [%emt 00:00:01]}
48.Qc2 {(Kg2) [%eval 0,23] [%emt 00:00:03]} Kf7 {(Kh8) [%eval -9,26] [%emt 00:00:01]}
49.h4 {(Kg2) [%eval 4,20] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke6 {(Kg8) [%eval -9,25] [%emt 00:00:01]}
50.Kg2 {(Kg2) [%eval 17,19] [%emt 00:00:02]} Qd5 {(Qd5) [%eval -9,25] [%emt 00:00:01]}
51.Kf1 {(Kg1) [%eval 17,19] [%emt 00:00:04]} Qf3 {(Qd4) [%eval -9,22] [%emt 00:00:01]}
52.Qg6 {(Qg6) [%eval 51,16] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kd5 {(Kd5) [%eval -9,24] [%emt 00:00:01]}
53.Qxg7 {(Qxg7) [%eval 26,17] [%emt 00:00:02]} Qxa3 {(Kc4) [%eval -9,24] [%emt 00:00:01]}
54.Qd7 {(Qd7) [%eval 36,16] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kc4 {(Ke4) [%eval -9,25] [%emt 00:00:01]}
55.Qc6 {(Qc6) [%eval 29,16] [%emt 00:00:02]} Kd4 {(Kd4) [%eval -9,26] [%emt 00:00:01]}
56.Qf6 {(Qf6) [%eval 22,18] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke4 {(Ke4) [%eval -9,26] [%emt 00:00:01]}
57.Qe6 {(Qc6) [%eval 0,19] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kd4 {(Kd4) [%eval -9,27] [%emt 00:00:01]}
58.Kg2 {(Qf6) [%eval 0,20] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qc5 {(Qc5) [%eval -9,22] [%emt 00:00:02]}
59.Qxh6 {(Qxh6) [%eval 0,19] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qd5 {(Qd5) [%eval -9,24] [%emt 00:00:02]}
60.Kh2 {(Kg1) [%eval 0,20] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke4 {(Ke4) [%eval 0,25] [%emt 00:00:01]}
61.Qb6 {(Qa6) [%eval 0,21] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kf3 {(Kf3) [%eval 0,27] [%emt 00:00:02]}
62.Qa7 {(Qa7) [%eval 0,22] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kxg4 {(Kxg4) [%eval 0,30] [%emt 00:00:01]}
63.Qxa4 {(Qxa4) [%eval 0,28] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qd2 {(Qd2) [%eval 0,35] [%emt 00:00:01]}
64.Qa7 {(Kg2) [%eval 0,28] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kxh4 {(Kxh4) [%eval 0,48] [%emt 00:00:01]}
65.Qc5 {[%eval 0,29] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kg4 {(Qd3) [%eval 0,31] [%emt 00:00:01]}
66.Kg1 {(Kg2) [%eval 0,36] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qe1 {(Qd1) [%eval 0,29] [%emt 00:00:01]}
67.Kg2 {(Kg2) [%eval 0,28] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qe4 {(Qe4) [%eval -9,28] [%emt 00:00:01]}
68.Kh2 {(Kg1) [%eval 0,42] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kf3 {[%eval 101,27] [%emt 00:00:01]}
69.Qc3 {(Qc3) [%eval -143,16] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kxf2 {(Kxf2) [%eval 94,31] [%emt 00:00:01]}
70.Qd2 {(Qd2) [%eval -128,18] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kf1 {(Kf1) [%eval 94,32] [%emt 00:00:01]}
71.Qc1 {(Qc1) [%eval -142,17] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke2 {(Ke2) [%eval 93,33] [%emt 00:00:00]}
72.Qb2 {(Qb2) [%eval -132,18] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kf3 {(Kf3) [%eval 28,34] [%emt 00:00:08]}
73.Qg2 {(Qg2) [%eval -132,18] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke3 {(Ke3) [%eval 28,1] [%emt 00:00:00]}
74.Qb2 {(Qg1) [%eval -141,19] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qd4 {(Qd4) [%eval 28,30] [%emt 00:00:00]}
75.Qb3 {(Qb3) [%eval -137,18] [%emt 00:00:00]} Ke2 {(Ke2) [%eval 28,31] [%emt 00:00:02]}
76.Qe6 {(Qe6) [%eval -132,18] [%emt 00:00:00]} Qe3 {(Qe3) [%eval 28,32] [%emt 00:00:00]}
77.Qg4 {(Qg6) [%eval -130,17] [%emt 00:00:00]} Qf3 {(Qf3) [%eval 28,32] [%emt 00:00:02]}
78.Qg6 {(Qg6) [%eval -125,19] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qf2 {(Qf2) [%eval 28,32] [%emt 00:00:00]}
79.Kh3 {(Kh3) [%eval -124,18] [%emt 00:00:01]} Qe3 {(Qe3) [%eval 8,31] [%emt 00:00:05]}
80.Kh2 {(Kh2) [%eval -124,18] [%emt 00:00:00]} Qd2 {(Qd2) [%eval 0,27] [%emt 00:00:01]}
81.Kg1 {(Kg1) [%eval -120,17] [%emt 00:00:00]} f3 {(Qe1) [%eval 0,29] [%emt 00:00:00]}
82.Qa6 {(Qa6) [%eval -6,24] [%emt 00:00:00]} Qd3 {(Kd1) [%eval 0,30] [%emt 00:00:00]}
83.Qxd3 {(Qxd3) [%eval -6,23] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kxd3 {(Kxd3) [%eval 0,35] [%emt 00:00:00]}
84.Kf1 {(Kf2) [%eval 0,22] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke3 {(Ke4) [%eval 0,35] [%emt 00:00:00]}
85.Ke1 {(Ke1) [%eval 0,26] [%emt 00:00:01]} Kd4 {(f2) [%eval 0,36] [%emt 00:00:00]}
86.Kf2 {(Kf1) [%eval 0,26] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke4 {(Ke4) [%eval 0,35] [%emt 00:00:00]}
87.Kf1 {(Kf1) [%eval 0,24] [%emt 00:00:01]} Ke5 {(Kf4) [%eval 0,36] [%emt 00:00:00]}
0-1

Modern Times
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Modern Times » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:17 am

With no increment, there is always a risk of engines losing on time, no matter what GUI is used.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:43 am

Modern Times wrote:With no increment, there is always a risk of engines losing on time, no matter what GUI is used.
I do not really agree with this opinion. Please run the program Shredder Classic 4 and play dozens of parties. I never noticed that someone lost over time.

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hgm
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by hgm » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:46 pm

That of course can also mean that the GUI is pretty lax in enforcing time. Switch off -autoCallFlag in WinBoard, and you are also guaranteed to never lose a game on time. Not even if you exceed your time by 10 min... :lol:

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:47 am

Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:22 pm

hgm wrote:That of course can also mean that the GUI is pretty lax in enforcing time. Switch off -autoCallFlag in WinBoard, and you are also guaranteed to never lose a game on time. Not even if you exceed your time by 10 min... :lol:
Only if such options do I have ChessGUI. So look through this program and I see no such option.

Modern Times
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Modern Times » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:24 pm

ChessGUI has an "overstep margin" setting in milliseconds. That might help, typically you might set that at 1,000. But for sudden death time controls, if you get a very long game, engines will get into time trouble eventually, same as humans can.

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:47 am

Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:13 pm

Modern Times wrote:ChessGUI has an "overstep margin" setting in milliseconds. That might help, typically you might set that at 1,000. But for sudden death time controls, if you get a very long game, engines will get into time trouble eventually, same as humans can.

Thank you very much for your answer Ray. What I mean is that, for example, when the engine 5 seconds remain until the end of the game is how to evaluate 0.00 as soon as possible should make moves on the board.

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hgm
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by hgm » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:14 pm

True. But unlike humans engines can move in 2 msec, so even when they still have 1 sec left they could still do hundreds of moves. So when you would program the engine such that it moves in 2 msec whenever the time on its clock is less than a second, it would be very unlikey the flag would fall before the 50-move rule kicks in. Of course this would not use that 1 sec optimally, as typical games would last only 50 moves, so you would almost never use more than 10% of it. So it is just where the priorities of the engine author lies: try to squeeze the most out of that one final second, or make sure it never forfeits on time.

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hgm
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by hgm » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:25 pm

Modern Times wrote:ChessGUI has an "overstep margin" setting in milliseconds. That might help, typically you might set that at 1,000. But for sudden death time controls, if you get a very long game, engines will get into time trouble eventually, same as humans can.
Such options are very detrimental for the general quality of engines. They encourage authors to make a mess of their time management, and before you know it they will be blaming the user for the fact that their engines flag, for not setting the overstep margin large enough...

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: ChessGUI 0.245f is available

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:36 pm

hgm wrote:True. But unlike humans engines can move in 2 msec, so even when they still have 1 sec left they could still do hundreds of moves. So when you would program the engine such that it moves in 2 msec whenever the time on its clock is less than a second, it would be very unlikey the flag would fall before the 50-move rule kicks in. Of course this would not use that 1 sec optimally, as typical games would last only 50 moves, so you would almost never use more than 10% of it. So it is just where the priorities of the engine author lies: try to squeeze the most out of that one final second, or make sure it never forfeits on time.
I have not written that I used tablebase Syzygy 6-men. As I looked at Shredder Classic 4 as he does in 1 second movement is very much I was impressed. I have a question as to the options Ignore 50 Move Rule. I understand how this option is enabled, this rule applies, and if it does not apply to disabled. But as it except ma like it to see if it is working properly.

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