Who is better (a lot of pawns)

[Vinvin]

A friend brought a new game at the chess club, he read the position is about equal (without proof). What do you think ?

A lot of engines crash when analyzing.
[d]4k3/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 30
Ruffian 1.0.5 found a big + for white :

15/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,71 d2-d3 e4xd3 e2xd3 e5-e4 d3xc4 b5xc4 Cg1-e2 d4-d3 Ce2-g1 g4-g3 f2-f3 g3xh2 Th1xh2 d3xc2 Dd1xc2 b4-b3
16/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,82 a2-a3 Re8-f8 Ta1-a2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ta2-a1 a5-a4 h2-h3 Rf8-g8 Th1-h2 g4-g3 Th2-h1 d4-d3 f2-f3 d3xe2 Re1xe2 b5-b4
16/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,83 h2-h3 Re8-f8 h3xg4 h5xg4 a2-a3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Th1-h2 g4-g3 Th2-h1 g3xf2+ Re1xf2 e4-e3+ Rf2-e1 e3xd2+ Fc1xd2 c4-c3 b2xc3 d4xc3 Cb1xc3 c5-c4 Cg1-f3

[kbhearn]

First thought would be: does black have draw in hand by primarily playing passive and just maintaining a double row of pawns (i.e. only pushing back pawns up). White doesn't seem to have much space to arrange pieces for the multisacs that will be needed to break up black's pawn wall.

[Vinvin]

Yes, it's not so easy, we played 20 games at 5 min/games, at the end white seems stronger because of multisac pieces on 1 wing : N for 2 pawns, then B for 2 pawns and then rook for 2 pawns too and then queen enters and eat everything by behind ...

First thought would be: does black have draw in hand by primarily playing passive and just maintaining a double row of pawns (i.e. only pushing back pawns up). White doesn't seem to have much space to arrange pieces for the multisacs that will be needed to break up black's pawn wall.

[George Tsavdaris]

A friend brought a new game at the chess club, he read the position is about equal (without proof). What do you think ?

A lot of engines crash when analyzing.
[d]4k3/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 30
Ruffian 1.0.5 found a big + for white :

15/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,71 d2-d3 e4xd3 e2xd3 e5-e4 d3xc4 b5xc4 Cg1-e2 d4-d3 Ce2-g1 g4-g3 f2-f3 g3xh2 Th1xh2 d3xc2 Dd1xc2 b4-b3
16/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,82 a2-a3 Re8-f8 Ta1-a2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ta2-a1 a5-a4 h2-h3 Rf8-g8 Th1-h2 g4-g3 Th2-h1 d4-d3 f2-f3 d3xe2 Re1xe2 b5-b4
16/31 03:06 162.114.648 870.414 +8,83 h2-h3 Re8-f8 h3xg4 h5xg4 a2-a3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Th1-h2 g4-g3 Th2-h1 g3xf2+ Re1xf2 e4-e3+ Rf2-e1 e3xd2+ Fc1xd2 c4-c3 b2xc3 d4xc3 Cb1xc3 c5-c4 Cg1-f3

This reminds me of Horde Chess(http://brainking.com/en/GameRules?tp=4).
I have played hundreds(probably thousands) of Horde Chess games and by seeing this modification of it, i have to say with total confidence that this must be a black wins game!

[George Tsavdaris]

And a sample game against Ruffian.

Time control 40/10 repeating, but because i have entered the game with your FEN that has 30 as the move number we had 10 minutes for the first 10 moves until reaching 40 moves. So it was a much slower game and Ruffian had much time to analyze. It was pointless since black is winning anyway
I needed also to adjust twice the time of Ruffian since it had a terrible time management and was left with just <10 seconds for the last 5 moves of the 75-80 moves until the time control to renew, so i put its time to 1 minute every time.

I used around 5 to 10 seconds for each move. Black's play is easy.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "PCLAB"]
[Date "2013.11.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ruffian 1.0.5"]
[Black "gtsavd"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Time "12:53:04"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "40/600:40/600:40/600"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k3/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 30"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

30. a3 {+8.98/11 7} g3 31. hxg3 {+8.96/11 8} hxg3 32. fxg3 {+8.88/13 13}
fxg3 33. axb4 {+8.77/14 15} axb4 34. Rh3 {+8.55/15 17} h4 35. Ra2 {+8.53/13
8} a5 36. Rh1 {+8.53/13 8} h5 37. Ra1 {+8.68/13 7} a6 38. Ra2 {+8.56/13 11}
f4 39. Ra1 {+8.47/14 15} f5 40. Ra2 {+8.59/12 8} e3 41. Nh3 {+8.33/14 59}
f6 42. dxe3 {+7.72/18 218} dxe3 43. Ng1 {+8.15/16 20} e4 44. Ra1 {+7.94/16
29} d4 45. Nh3 {+7.16/17 179} e5 46. Ng1 {+7.60/14 23} d5 47. Rh3 {+6.62/16
142} b3 48. c3 {+6.63/13 13} e6 49. Rh1 {+6.70/12 17} d6 50. cxd4 {+6.89/13
12} cxd4 51. Rh3 {+5.94/15 113} c5 52. Rh1 {+6.32/12 8} c6 53. Ra3
{+6.46/12 10} Kf7 54. Rh3 {+6.46/13 8} h6 55. Ra1 {+6.57/12 9} g4 56. Rxh4
{+6.85/13 11} d3 57. exd3 {+6.37/14 91} cxd3 58. Bxd3 {+6.37/11 5} exd3 59.
Qxd3 {+6.35/12 4} e4 60. Qf1 {+6.00/13 9} e5 61. Ne2 {+5.73/12 9} f3 62.
Nxg3 {+5.73/11 4} f4 63. Nh1 {+5.63/12 10} d4 64. g3 {+5.05/12 10} e2 65.
Qg1 {+5.22/14 8} e3 66. Qh2 {+4.82/14 10} g5 67. Rxh5 {+6.32/12 10} Kg6 68.
Nc3 {+3.41/12 10} dxc3 69. bxc3 {+2.33/14 33} b4 70. cxb4 {+5.22/9} axb4
71. Rxa4 {+3.58/12 5} b5 72. Ra1 {+3.59/11} c4 73. Rb1 {+3.33/12 1} a5 74.
Rb2 {+3.09/10 1} a4 75. Rb1 {-3.01/11 7} c3 76. gxf4 {-3.01/8 1} exf4 77.
Ra1 {-3.09/8} b2 78. Rb1 {-11.77/10 1} a3 79. Rh4 {-7.67/7} b3 80. Ng3
{-14.63/9 1} fxg3 81. Qxe2 {-25.41/14 32} fxe2 82. Rh1 {-25.41/12 21 User
Adjudication} 0-1

[Vinvin]

And a sample game against Ruffian.

Time control 40/10 repeating, but because i have entered the game with your FEN that has 30 as the move number we had 10 minutes for the first 10 moves until reaching 40 moves. So it was a much slower game and Ruffian had much time to analyze. It was pointless since black is winning anyway
I needed also to adjust twice the time of Ruffian since it had a terrible time management and was left with just <10 seconds for the last 5 moves of the 75-80 moves until the time control to renew, so i put its time to 1 minute every time.

I used around 5 to 10 seconds for each move. Black's play is easy.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "PCLAB"]
[Date "2013.11.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ruffian 1.0.5"]
[Black "gtsavd"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Time "12:53:04"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "40/600:40/600:40/600"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k3/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/pppppppp/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 30"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

30. a3 {+8.98/11 7} g3 31. hxg3 {+8.96/11 8} hxg3 32. fxg3 {+8.88/13 13}
fxg3 33. axb4 {+8.77/14 15} axb4 34. Rh3 {+8.55/15 17} h4 35. Ra2 {+8.53/13
8} a5 36. Rh1 {+8.53/13 8} h5 37. Ra1 {+8.68/13 7} a6 38. Ra2 {+8.56/13 11}
f4 39. Ra1 {+8.47/14 15} f5 40. Ra2 {+8.59/12 8} e3 41. Nh3 {+8.33/14 59}
f6 42. dxe3 {+7.72/18 218} dxe3 43. Ng1 {+8.15/16 20} e4 44. Ra1 {+7.94/16
29} d4 45. Nh3 {+7.16/17 179} e5 46. Ng1 {+7.60/14 23} d5 47. Rh3 {+6.62/16
142} b3 48. c3 {+6.63/13 13} e6 49. Rh1 {+6.70/12 17} d6 50. cxd4 {+6.89/13
12} cxd4 51. Rh3 {+5.94/15 113} c5 52. Rh1 {+6.32/12 8} c6 53. Ra3
{+6.46/12 10} Kf7 54. Rh3 {+6.46/13 8} h6 55. Ra1 {+6.57/12 9} g4 56. Rxh4
{+6.85/13 11} d3 57. exd3 {+6.37/14 91} cxd3 58. Bxd3 {+6.37/11 5} exd3 59.
Qxd3 {+6.35/12 4} e4 60. Qf1 {+6.00/13 9} e5 61. Ne2 {+5.73/12 9} f3 62.
Nxg3 {+5.73/11 4} f4 63. Nh1 {+5.63/12 10} d4 64. g3 {+5.05/12 10} e2 65.
Qg1 {+5.22/14 8} e3 66. Qh2 {+4.82/14 10} g5 67. Rxh5 {+6.32/12 10} Kg6 68.
Nc3 {+3.41/12 10} dxc3 69. bxc3 {+2.33/14 33} b4 70. cxb4 {+5.22/9} axb4
71. Rxa4 {+3.58/12 5} b5 72. Ra1 {+3.59/11} c4 73. Rb1 {+3.33/12 1} a5 74.
Rb2 {+3.09/10 1} a4 75. Rb1 {-3.01/11 7} c3 76. gxf4 {-3.01/8 1} exf4 77.
Ra1 {-3.09/8} b2 78. Rb1 {-11.77/10 1} a3 79. Rh4 {-7.67/7} b3 80. Ng3
{-14.63/9 1} fxg3 81. Qxe2 {-25.41/14 32} fxe2 82. Rh1 {-25.41/12 21 User
Adjudication} 0-1

Nice play, George !
Ruffian doesn't understand it have to sacrifice some pieces early in the game to penetrate the black wall.

[Uri Blass]

some analysis by chess programs:

Houdini3 suggests the illegal move d2xd4
Stockfish suggest a2a3 and crash
Houdini1.5 crash
Critter1.4 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 with no analysis
Spike1.2 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 and changes its mind to the illegal move d2xd4

Rybka2.2 64 bit suggest b2b3 with evaluation -1.37 pawns(that means black advantage) at depth 16.

[Vinvin]

some analysis by chess programs:

Houdini3 suggests the illegal move d2xd4
Stockfish suggest a2a3 and crash
Houdini1.5 crash
Critter1.4 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 with no analysis
Spike1.2 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 and changes its mind to the illegal move d2xd4

Rybka2.2 64 bit suggest b2b3 with evaluation -1.37 pawns(that means black advantage) at depth 16.

Interesting, from my experience, b3 seems to be the best move and then try to break through on the a or b file with the help of 4 or 5 pieces sacrifice.

[Adam Hair]

some analysis by chess programs:

Houdini3 suggests the illegal move d2xd4
Stockfish suggest a2a3 and crash
Houdini1.5 crash
Critter1.4 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 with no analysis
Spike1.2 suggests the illegal move e2xe4 and changes its mind to the illegal move d2xd4

Rybka2.2 64 bit suggest b2b3 with evaluation -1.37 pawns(that means black advantage) at depth 16.

Komodo 6 sees it as approximately +10, but then it can not figure out how to break through the mob of pawns during self-play.

[tmokonen]

The new version of SmarThink is able to handle this position, and thinks that White has an advantage of approximately two pawns at the start. I only tested self-play at a rapid time control, but SmarThink won as White. It didn't seem to like 1.b3 as the first move, but rather oscillated between a3 and h3.