TalkChess.com

IanO wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:13 am I was a big fan of Ferret back in the early days of computer chess. Even further back, I directed chess tournaments in the northwest US. As I was cataloging my games a few years ago I was surprised to see a familiar name: I apparently played Bruce in a "bye game" at a tournament I directed, long before I knew him as the author of Ferret!

I also miss many of these oldies, and thought it was a shame that Ferret never had a commercial offering or a clear championship title. He contributed a lot to this very forum. You should search the original archives for his contributions, they are quite worth reading.

Vinvin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Norbert Raimund Leisner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 pm unfortunately Bruce Moreland cannot be contacted under his former email-address.
This engine from the year 1995 had its own GUI and was made for e.g. win32, but one thing seems to be a mystery:
Is it compatible to WinBoard (CECP)-protocol and -if yes- which command line parameters are required to run under Arena-GUI?
...
Norbert

Sometimes I dream we would get a modern compile and UCI interface for all this famous oldies : Ferret, Chess Genius 3, Chess System Tal, Fritz 3, MChess Pro 3.12, Chessmaster 2100, Gambit Tiger 2, Shredder 5.32, ...
And on the other way, I'd like to see Stockfish 10 tested on a Pentium 200 MMX

Guenther wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:09 am

IanO wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:13 am I was a big fan of Ferret back in the early days of computer chess. Even further back, I directed chess tournaments in the northwest US. As I was cataloging my games a few years ago I was surprised to see a familiar name: I apparently played Bruce in a "bye game" at a tournament I directed, long before I knew him as the author of Ferret!

I also miss many of these oldies, and thought it was a shame that Ferret never had a commercial offering or a clear championship title. He contributed a lot to this very forum. You should search the original archives for his contributions, they are quite worth reading.

https://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?t ... d&search=1
https://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?t ... t&search=1
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searc ... aealS9iXIJ

supersharp77 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:06 pm

Vinvin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Norbert Raimund Leisner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 pm unfortunately Bruce Moreland cannot be contacted under his former email-address.
This engine from the year 1995 had its own GUI and was made for e.g. win32, but one thing seems to be a mystery:
Is it compatible to WinBoard (CECP)-protocol and -if yes- which command line parameters are required to run under Arena-GUI?
...
Norbert

Sometimes I dream we would get a modern compile and UCI interface for all this famous oldies : Ferret, Chess Genius 3, Chess System Tal, Fritz 3, MChess Pro 3.12, Chessmaster 2100, Gambit Tiger 2, Shredder 5.32, ...
And on the other way, I'd like to see Stockfish 10 tested on a Pentium 200 MMX

Figured it was a Good Time to Check Out Chess System Tal and Ferret and see How A game might play out....Just like the old days!...

[pgn][Event "Offhand Game"] [Site "?"] [Date "2000.06.16"] [Round "?"] [White "Chess System Tal"] [Black "Ferret v1.0"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "2500"] [BlackElo "2600"] [Annotator "Ross-SF Ipman SE-3"] [PlyCount "83"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 (2... e6 {Other Sicilian lines}) (2... Nc6) (2... a6 $6) 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 $5 {Ferret Opening book chooses sharp play!} 6. Bg5 (6. Bc4) (6. Be2 e5) (6. f4 g6 7. Be2 Bg7 8. O-O Bg4 $5) 6... e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3 $5 {Main Attack line Bg5} h6 9. Bh4 g5 $5 {Sharp..} 10. fxg5 Nfd7 $1 11. Nxe6 $3 {A Pure 'Chess System Tal' Move...} fxe6 12. Qh5+ Kf8 13. Be2 { Stockfish a bit confused by this position...} Kg7 $5 14. gxh6+ Rxh6 15. Qg4+ Rg6 16. Bxe7 $1 Qxe7 17. Qf3 (17. Qf4 {SF varies with Qf4.....}) 17... Ne5 18. Qf2 Nbc6 19. h4 $1 {Tal Like....No Doubts!} Rf6 20. Qe3 Kf8 {Ferret for most of this game gave +1.32 (early) to +0.88 (late) as blacks advantage for this game..} 21. g4 Ke8 22. g5 Rf8 23. Bh5+ Kd7 {headed to the queenside!} 24. O-O-O Rh8 25. Be2 Kc7 26. h5 Bd7 27. Na4 Rag8 28. g6 Kb8 29. Nb6 $1 { Looked pretty strong to me at the time..Chess System Tal!} Bc8 30. Kb1 { SF Ipman SE3 says About even...} Rd8 31. Rhf1 (31. Rh3 Rhg8 32. Qb3 Rg7 33. a3 Rh8 34. Ka1 $14 {Pretty Even.....}) 31... Rhe8 32. Ka1 Rg8 33. Rg1 Qc7 34. Nxc8 (34. Rd2 $5 Rg7 $14) 34... Kxc8 35. Qb3 Qe7 36. c3 Kc7 37. Rg2 Rdf8 38. Rh1 Rf4 39. Qc2 Kb8 40. Kb1 Ka8 41. a3 Kb8 42. Rd1 { Says Even Across The Board..."Interesting Game..Like the Old Days"} 1/2-1/2 [/pgn]

Albert Silver wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:49 pm Bruce was working with Convetka to make a commercial version.
The project never got completed.

Yes, it was somewhere between Fritz 5 and Fritz 6 strength, the two kings of the time. Like them, it was an incredibly fast engine that compensated many of its positional flaws by simply outcalculating its rivals. I actually still have it and one of the test interfaces built to run it, though it was for... drum roll... Windows 98/Millennium.

nathanhoover wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 12:09 pm

Albert Silver wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:49 pm Bruce was working with Convetka to make a commercial version.
The project never got completed.

Yes, it was somewhere between Fritz 5 and Fritz 6 strength, the two kings of the time. Like them, it was an incredibly fast engine that compensated many of its positional flaws by simply outcalculating its rivals. I actually still have it and one of the test interfaces built to run it, though it was for... drum roll... Windows 98/Millennium.

It would be nice if some day, Ferret was made available. Back in the 90's, I had purchased many DOS and Windows chess programs: M-Chess, Rebel, Hiarcs, Fritz, Genius, and CM6000. I have found many others online for which I would be happy to donate, but this option is usually not available. In the last 5 years, I've had some nostalgia on these programs, and started running tournaments using VMware. I set up DOS 6.22, Win 3.1, and Windows 98 virtual machines, and these chess programs work very well in this environment. They are super strong, as they utilize modern hardware, and get 10-12 ply deep in the middlegame. I use Fritz 11 opening book up to 12 moves deep, and manually input the moves into the chess programs, and have them play from there. This way, they all use the same opening book with many variations, and only for 12 moves max. I take evaluation notes while I play the games, when there are changes of 1 point or more. The notes also include the ply-depth. I use a time control of 1 minute per move, or 60 moves/60 minutes. I run several VMs at once, so I can usually get 6 games played in a few hours. It was a labor of love, and good development for my chess, but very time consuming, so I don't know if I'll do any more. Although, if Ferret becomes available I may.

I have links to the Standings and the PGN (also in ZIP) if anyone is interested. My website is very novice, but I think these links work...
https://www.nathanhoover.info/wp-conten ... /games.txt
https://www.nathanhoover.info/wp-conten ... /games.zip
https://www.nathanhoover.info/wp-conten ... urneys.txt

It would be somewhat sad if Ferret never became available to the general public as Bruce Moreland is so talented, and put so much time and effort into it. There would be no chance of reliving the 90's Ferret nostalgia in live tournaments, ever again.

Sincerely,
Nathan Hoover

                                     Nostalgia Y2K Tourney September 2018

    Name                rtng rd 9  rd 8  rd 7  rd 6  rd 5  rd 4  rd 3  rd 2  rd 1   TOT Brks
  1 M-Chess 8.0.........2400 D  2  D  4  W  9  W  8  W  6  D  3  W 10  D  5  W  7   7.0 54.5
  2 WChess 1.05.........2400 D  1  W 10  W  5  W  7  D  3  L  4  W  9  W  8  L  6   6.0 46.5
  3 Chess System Tal....2400 L  5  D  8  D  7  W  6  D  2  D  1  W  4  W 10  D  9   5.5 45.0
  4 Socrates 3.0........2400 L  6  D  1  W 10  D  5  D  7  W  2  L  3  W  9  D  8   5.0 40.0
  5 Rebel 6.0...........2400 W  3  L  7  L  2  D  4  W  9  D  8  D  6  D  1  W 10   5.0 39.0
  6 Zarkov 3.0..........2400 W  4  L  9  D  8  L  3  L  1  D 10  D  5  W  7  W  2   4.5 40.5
  7 ChessGenius 1.0.....2400 W 10  W  5  D  3  L  2  D  4  W  9  D  8  L  6  L  1   4.5 32.0
  8 Fritz 1.0...........2400 D  9  D  3  D  6  L  1  D 10  D  5  D  7  L  2  D  4   3.5 28.5
  9 Now 0.1.............2400 D  8  W  6  L  1  W 10  L  5  L  7  L  2  L  4  D  3   3.0 20.0
 10 Sargon V............2400 L  7  L  2  L  4  L  9  D  8  D  6  L  1  L  3  L  5   1.0  8.0
 

                                     Nostalgia Y2K Tourney Ocotber 2018

    Name                rtng rd11  rd10  rd 9  rd 8  rd 7  rd 6  rd 5  rd 4  rd 3  rd 2  rd 1   TOT Brks
  1 Hiarcs 6.0..........2460 W  9  W 11  D  3  W  6  W  4  W 12  D  2  W 10  D  8  W  5  D  7   9.0 89.0
  2 M-Chess 8.0.........2450 W  8  L  5  W  7  W  9  W 11  D  3  D  1  L  4  W 12  W  6  W 10   8.0 74.0
  3 Rebel 10.0..........2440 W 11  D  6  D  1  W  4  W 12  D  2  W 10  D  8  D  5  D  7  L  9   7.0 70.5
  4 ChessGenius 5.0.....2440 W  7  D  9  W 11  L  3  L  1  D  6  W 12  W  2  D 10  W  8  D  5   7.0 65.5
  5 Chessmaster 4000....2430 W 12  W  2  W 10  D  8  L  6  L  7  W  9  D 11  D  3  L  1  D  4   6.0 57.5
  6 Socrates 3.0........2410 L 10  D  3  W  8  L  1  W  5  D  4  L  7  W 12  W  9  L  2  D 11   5.5 49.5
  7 WChess 1.05.........2430 L  4  W 12  L  2  L 10  D  8  W  5  W  6  L  9  D 11  D  3  D  1   5.0 48.5
  8 Fritz 3.0...........2420 L  2  W 10  L  6  D  5  D  7  W  9  L 11  D  3  D  1  L  4  W 12   5.0 45.0
  9 Zarkov 3.0..........2400 L  1  D  4  W 12  L  2  W 10  L  8  L  5  W  7  L  6  L 11  W  3   4.5 40.0
 10 Chess System Tal....2420 W  6  L  8  L  5  W  7  L  9  W 11  L  3  L  1  D  4  W 12  L  2   4.5 37.0
 11 Sargon V............2330 L  3  L  1  L  4  W 12  L  2  L 10  W  8  D  5  D  7  W  9  D  6   4.5 35.5
 12 Now 0.1.............2370 L  5  L  7  L  9  L 11  L  3  L  1  L  4  L  6  L  2  L 10  L  8   0.0  0.0
 

                                     Nostalgia Y2K Tourney October 2018

    Name                rtng rd11  rd10  rd 9  rd 8  rd 7  rd 6  rd 5  rd 4  rd 3  rd 2  rd 1   TOT Brks
  1 Bringer 1.9.........2375 W  7  D 11  W  2  W  8  W  9  W 10  L  4  D  5  W  3  W 12  W  6   9.0 88.0
  2 Mephisto (Nimzo97)..2375 W  3  W 12  L  1  W  7  W 11  D  6  W  8  W  9  W 10  L  4  W  5   8.5 74.0
  3 Gandalf 3...........2375 L  2  W  8  W  9  W 10  W  4  D  5  W  6  W 12  L  1  W  7  W 11   8.5 72.5
  4 Virtual Chess 1.05..2375 W  9  L 10  W  6  W  5  L  3  W 12  W  1  D  7  W 11  W  2  D  8   8.0 85.5
  5 Kallisto II.........2375 W  8  W  9  W 10  L  4  D  6  D  3  W 12  D  1  W  7  W 11  L  2   7.5 59.5
  6 ZChess 2.2..........2375 W 10  W  7  L  4  W 11  D  5  D  2  L  3  W  8  W 12  W  9  L  1   7.0 51.0
  7 ChessTiger v10......2375 L  1  L  6  W 11  L  2  W  8  W  9  D 10  D  4  L  5  L  3  W 12   5.0 30.5
  8 Comet 00B...........2375 L  5  L  3  W 12  L  1  L  7  W 11  L  2  L  6  L  9  W 10  D  4   3.5 19.0
  9 InmiChess 3.05......2375 L  4  L  5  L  3  D 12  L  1  L  7  W 11  L  2  W  8  L  6  W 10   3.5 17.5
 10 Waxman 1.9..........2375 L  6  W  4  L  5  L  3  W 12  L  1  D  7  L 11  L  2  L  8  L  9   2.5 22.0
 11 GromitChess 1.2.....2375 W 12  D  1  L  7  L  6  L  2  L  8  L  9  W 10  L  4  L  5  L  3   2.5 15.0
 12 Arasan 2.2..........2375 L 11  L  2  L  8  D  9  L 10  L  4  L  5  L  3  L  6  L  1  L  7   0.5  3.5