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WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:36 am
by Mike S.
http://icga.uvt.nl/?page_id=631
(not up to date at the moment, but certainly soon)
Junior 7.5/10, Jonny (2400 Cores
) 7.0/10.
If we look at the rather restrictive (in terms of excluding dozens of Ipponians) IPON list, we find Junior 13.3 on rank 17. To become
top-10, the new version needs to have gained 78 elo points. Good luck.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:21 pm
by hgm
Seems it gained huge compared to any known version. The opponents were completely surprised by this, getting in positions where they thought they had a winning advantage, and then losing. Consensus amongst the participants was that they must have invented some new search improvement.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:23 pm
by Modern Times
Congratulations to Junior.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:33 pm
by Sven
hgm wrote:Seems it gained huge compared to any known version. The opponents were completely surprised by this, getting in positions where they thought they had a winning advantage, and then losing. Consensus amongst the participants was that they must have invented some new search improvement.
No doubt that Junior was the best program in this tournament, but what else can we conclude from playing 10 games?
Code: Select all
1 Junior 127 95 90 10 75% -25 30%
2 Jonny 100 90 87 10 70% -20 60%
3 Pandix 30 89 85 10 55% -6 50%
4 Hiarcs 26 91 88 10 55% -5 30%
5 Shredder -17 91 88 10 45% 3 30%
6 Merlin -266 99 158 10 0% 53 0%
Sven
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:23 pm
by Modern Times
Yes with 10 games maybe you can't conclude too much, but the "sudden death" nature of the small amount of games can make it exciting.
Of note also, that the hardware of Jonny and Junior probably did not make much difference. We know that scaling beyond 16 cores is not that good, and chances are they are slower cores too beyond that point. But the computer geek side of me loves to see engines running on such hardware.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:54 pm
by Laskos
Sven Schüle wrote:hgm wrote:Seems it gained huge compared to any known version. The opponents were completely surprised by this, getting in positions where they thought they had a winning advantage, and then losing. Consensus amongst the participants was that they must have invented some new search improvement.
No doubt that Junior was the best program in this tournament, but what else can we conclude from playing 10 games?
Code: Select all
1 Junior 127 95 90 10 75% -25 30%
2 Jonny 100 90 87 10 70% -20 60%
3 Pandix 30 89 85 10 55% -6 50%
4 Hiarcs 26 91 88 10 55% -5 30%
5 Shredder -17 91 88 10 45% 3 30%
6 Merlin -266 99 158 10 0% 53 0%
Sven
What rating program did you use? I used Ordo with the -W switch and got
Code: Select all
# ENGINE : RATING POINTS PLAYED (%)
1 Junior : 258.0 7.5 10 75.0%
2 Jonny : 214.6 7.0 10 70.0%
3 Hiarcs : 90.8 5.5 10 55.0%
4 Pandix : 90.8 5.5 10 55.0%
5 Shredder : 5.7 4.5 10 45.0%
6 Merlin < : -565.4 0.0 10 0.0%
So, with errors 2SD of 100 points (or error of difference 140 points), Junior seems superior to Hiarcs, Pandix and Shredder, even with this small sample.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:10 pm
by fern
BUT I understand that playing in equal hardware, Hiarcs was the winner. Wasn't so?
Fern
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:47 pm
by Modern Times
fern wrote:BUT I understand that playing in equal hardware, Hiarcs was the winner. Wasn't so?
Fern
What was the equal hardware ? On very low-end 32-bit hardware as was the case in the past, Hiarcs's performance was not degraded as much as some other engines. If the equal hardware had been an 8-core 64-bit box, or even a quad 64-bit, Hiarcs would not have stood a chance. Plenty of equal hardware ratings lists out there with hundreds of games (IPON, CEGT. CCRL) that show Hiarcs as barely a top-10 engine. But I don't know what the hardware was this year. Maybe someone can clarify, and that isn't the case this time.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:58 pm
by Mike S.
In the WCSC, there are still 3 rounds to go which are scheduled for Sunday. Currently, Hiarcs leads with 4.5/7.
http://icga.uvt.nl/?page_id=633
Hiarcs is the defender of this title, having won it in 2011 against the very same opponents, except Merlin.
Re: WCCC 2013: Junior wins
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:12 pm
by Modern Times
SzG wrote:
All programs play on the following hardware: laptop with I7-3740, 2.7 GHz and 16 GB RAM.
With a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system ? We know that Hiarcs does not benefit from 64-bit, but some of it's competitors gain 50% + speedup from 64-bit.