Hispanic chess engines + Winboard Zeta Pack number 18

[hgm]

You've shown pictures of Winboard Zeta with a malfunction trying to belittle the work of Alex,

Uh??? So now reporting a bug in the hope it will be fixed is 'belittling the work of others'?

Get real!

You can not see that there is a derivative of Winboard. You'll catch all for the major version and then what sense does it make a derivative? And the derivative programmers have to hear that his version does not have anything interesting since everything is in the version that you represent.

I don't see any logic in your argument whatsoever. Why should it make sense to make a derivative? The purpose of open-source software is not to allow individual programmers to derive glory from having 'their own version' built on (mainly) the work of others. Which is apparently what Alex wants. The source of WinBoard was GPL'ed so that everyone can contribute to it, so users will have the best possible product.

What you argue here for goes completely against the spirit of GPL.

THIS IS ILLEGAL

This should not be so, since you're not the only programmer of Winboard. You can not take the code of Winboard X and use in the main version of Winboard and then do what you want because you are a representative of GNU.

As a matter of fact contributers sell their contribution to FSF (for a symbolic amount of $1, which I actually did not even receive), so the copyrights are pretty much all owned by FSF.

The only exception seems to be some of the work of Alessandro, not because he did not want to sell, but because it seems the company he is working for can lay a claim on everything produced by his hand. Well, let that company sue me on this technicality, if they want. That is none of your business. I break the law as I see fit, and no one can derive any rights from that whatsoever.

No need to continue discussing this.

Yeah, and it would have been a really great idea if you had realized that before you started to post all the nonsense you wrote about me here...

And you might think this solves the matter, but in fact it doesn't. That Alex cannot distribute WinBoard Zeta here because it is considered pirated software just means he will try to distribute it elsewhere. To solve the matter he should have provided the source code. Nothing would be simpler, and no one would suffer. So why doesn't he do it? Ask yourself that...

[Modern Times]

The misdemeanour committed here is of the same magnitude as driving your car at 81kph in an 80kph area. I say to all, get over it and move on.

[hgm]

Well, I do consider it still important to get access to the WinBoard Zeta source code. There could be things in there that would still be worthwhile to port to the main branch. This was originally not a discussion about technicalities, as Pedro tried to make it, but of a genuine problem that soomeone does violate the very core of the GPL by not allowing access to the source code of a derivative that he distributes.

[pedrox]

Well, I do consider it still important to get access to the WinBoard Zeta source code. There could be things in there that would still be worthwhile to port to the main branch. This was originally not a discussion about technicalities, as Pedro tried to make it, but of a genuine problem that soomeone does violate the very core of the GPL by not allowing access to the source code of a derivative that he distributes.

I do not distribute Winboard Zeta, I made it clear on more than one occasion that I have removed the download links. This is already the third time I say.

But you're right, the main reason original that is not distributed code is that you have shown scorn for Winboard Zeta (now would be a second good reason)

This thread is an example, there's more:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... at&start=0

If you do not like derivatives, then you should not use GPL license. Not everyone wants a single version of something, you can see it in the number of Linux distributions.

If the code of Winboard Zeta was available you could not use in the main version of Winboard if you consider that you can break the license when you want to be the representative of GNU xboard.

You should respect the GPL license of a derivative even if you're a member of GNU xboard.

Under these circumstances you will be the only programmer of Winboard, maybe it's what you want.

[IGarcia]

The misdemeanour committed here is of the same magnitude as driving your car at 81kph in an 80kph area. I say to all, get over it and move on.

Throwing your discus an inch out of sector should also be allowed.

PS. In my opinion that 80 kph was determined assuming it is going to be overstepped by 10 kph so in fact the intention was probably not to allow driving over 90.
Here you won't get fined if you overspeed by 10 %.

well, the idea of GPL is clear written. And a software will be inside GPL or Outside. It can not be a little outside.

Still, I agree with intentions, and FSF will don't care about winboard Z (81kph) but it will go against somebody going commercial with a GPL (270 km/h)

[hgm]

Still, I agree with intentions, and FSF will don't care about winboard Z (81kph) but it will go against somebody going commercial with a GPL (270 km/h)

Can you quote any evidence for that? Or is it just something you are making up?

[hgm]

I do not distribute Winboard Zeta, I made it clear on more than one occasion that I have removed the download links. This is already the third time I say.

Yes, afterwards. You are aware what 'originally' means? In my quote it says nowhere that you (still) distribute it, btw, so I don't understand why you quote it in this context. But that you no longer distribute it does not mean that others do not distribute it. You must have gotten it from somewhere. Was it sent to you by private mail?

But you're right, the main reason original that is not distributed code is that you have shown scorn for Winboard Zeta (now would be a second good reason)

Well, like I said, there is a reason, which means it is not an accidental oversight, but an intentional, willful licence violation. Glad you agree.

If you do not like derivatives, then you should not use GPL license. Not everyone wants a single version of something, you can see it in the number of Linux distributions.

But I do like derivatives, providded they respect the GPL. Because if they contain something good and useful I can integrate it in the main branch, improving it without having to put in much effort myself.

If the code of Winboard Zeta was available you could not use in the main version of Winboard if you consider that you can break the license when you want to be the representative of GNU xboard.

Not sure what you mean with that. If the code of WinBoard Zeta was available, I could take anything from it that I wanted. That is what the GPL says.

You should respect the GPL license of a derivative even if you're a member of GNU xboard.

And that license says I can take anything from it that I want in other GPL projects. Which GNU WinBoard is.

Under these circumstances you will be the only programmer of Winboard, maybe it's what you want.

Not everyone has a second agenda, and wants to hide source code. In fact there are many other programmers that occasionally contribute code. John Cheetham has in fact been the main programmer of the GTK version of XBoard. But when you mean that this will discourage people from making derivatives, rather than contributing to improving the main branch, then I don't care. Derivatives are useless to me if I cannot use their code in the main branch. I don't think that a World with 20 different versions of WinBoard that all can do and cannot do different things would be a better one than where there is one version that does everything. On the contrary. People tend to remember defects and shortcomings much better than things that work as expected. Such things just give the entire project a bad name. People will complain that this or that will not work on WinBoard, or make it crash, without mentioning that this is WinBoard Zeta (or Alpha, or Beta, or whatever), and that the same thing was fixed ages ago in the official GNU version.

[Daniel Shawul]

Yes I also think this shouldn't have escalated. HG is a nice guy, Pedro is a nice guy, so they should resolve it peacefully.

[hgm]

I have nothing against Pedro. But what he says just isn't right or true, and should not stand uncorrected.

It is in fact very sad if Alex Guerrero rather gives up distributing WinBoard Zeta than publish his code so that other versions (in particular the main branch at GNU) could benefit from it. But that is his decision, and I don't see any reason to exempt him from obeying the rules just so he can be stubborn and childish.

Funny thing is that GNU would probably not want his code in the main branch anyway if he would not be willing to sell the copyrights on it to FSF. But the whole idea that it could be helpful to others to learn from his code to create some similar functionality (which would probably be necessary anyway, because of the code divergince) is apparently already reason for him to not want it.

[IGarcia]

Still, I agree with intentions, and FSF will don't care about winboard Z (81kph) but it will go against somebody going commercial with a GPL (270 km/h)

Can you quote any evidence for that? Or is it just something you are making up?

Im not making up.

If somebody takes gpl code and uses to make (big) money, maybe gets sued, as done against Cisco some years ago. (I'm doing a simplification)

If I take Xboard sources, do modifications and give a binary for free and laugh in your face the rest of my life, FSF will do ... nothing.

Of course, you still right and you can manage to remove links on talkchess