Borislav Ivanov: a Lilov's add-on

[noctiferus]

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211 ... 30613.aspx

[Don]

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211 ... 30613.aspx

As the article shows by his own statements, he has contempt for most chess players. That should be no surprise as cheating is just another manifestation of that lack of respect for others.

[Hood]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

[tttony]

According to this interview, he has beated Rybka and Houdini 10-0

http://en.chessbase.com/home/TabId/211/PostId/4008781

[Don]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

[Don]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

P.S. furthermore, cheat on your taxes? You are not hurting anyone, right? The money you didn't pay will raise everyone else's taxes. But of course that doesn't matter because you pay less, right? You have made the decision that you everyone should pay a little bit more for your benefit, basically showing a degree of contempt.

[Hood]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

there are other motivations:
- you need money more then me.
- you have minority complex and want to value yourself etc. etc.

The problem is that every human is different and has differrent motivations.

Rgds Hood

[Don]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

there are other motivations:
- you need money more then me.
- you have minority complex and want to value yourself etc. etc.

Needing money and hurting others to get it is saying loud and clear that you consider your needs more important that someone else's needs - and thus you consider them less important. You are also saying that you have the right to make that judgement which is even more contemptuous. In my country if you take the law into your own hands, it may be out of some sense of justice you feel but it would still be considered contempt for the law. Not all contempt is misplaced, but it's still contempt.

As far as self-esteem issues, if you have to hurt people for the sake of your own self-worth, it's a selfish motivation and it shows contempt for others. Do you remember the Tonya Harding skating scandal? It was caused by jealously and contempt and no doubt in my mind a bad case of self-esteem.

Many people have self-esteem issues but do not attack others to "cure" it, they live with it or over time seek to repair it while not hurting others to do so.

The problem is that every human is different and has differrent motivations.

Yes, people are complex. But hurting others, either physically, psychologically or financially for your own gain is a form of contempt.

Rgds Hood

[Laskos]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

Yes, mine is wired differently too from your lynch-mob brain. Cheating has to be proven, you cannot say "he is a bad guy, therefore a cheater". All this fuss about Ivanov seems exaggerated, and the fact that they stripped him of a prize is reprobable. There is a reasonable doubt about his cheating, one cannot deprive him of prizes because of a suspicion.

[Uri Blass]

Cheating is cheating,
contempt is contempt.
There is no connection.

Wow, I can see why we so often disagree.

The connection is clear and obvious. ALL forms of dishonesty betray a lack of respect for other people. Stealing? How does that not show contempt for your victims?

Let's say we are in a tournament and I cheat by using a computer. I win the money, you lose the game. I lie about cheating and keep the money because I consider myself more important than you are. If you cannot see the connection, then your brain is wired so much differently than mine is.

P.S. furthermore, cheat on your taxes? You are not hurting anyone, right? The money you didn't pay will raise everyone else's taxes. But of course that doesn't matter because you pay less, right? You have made the decision that you everyone should pay a little bit more for your benefit, basically showing a degree of contempt.

I think that this example is different because the little bit is so little that people almost do not notice it.

If you steal 100,000$ from one person then you hurt that person significantly.

If you steal 0.1$ from million different people then nobody suffer significantly from your actions.

I think that more people are going to find it morally wrong to steal 100,000$ from one person relative to stealing 0.1$ from million different people by cheating on their taxes.

Personally I agree that it is morally wrong to cheat on your taxes but I think that it is significantly worse to steal the same money from one person.