At a glance you may think this is a draw. White wins!

[Robert Flesher]

A beautiful position that illustrates the advantage that a single tempo can give. Then zugzwang and black is lost. The key to this position is looking at it yourself, before using an engine. It's very instructive! Some very strong engine(s) also struggle here. Komodo CCT after 5 min cannot see the win on my machine.



[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

[Gerd Isenberg]

you may try the Szén position with Chunker

[Robert Flesher]

A beautiful position that illustrates the advantage that a single tempo can give. Then zugzwang and black is lost. The key to this position is looking at it yourself, before using an engine. It's very instructive! Some very strong engine(s) also struggle here. Komodo CCT after 5 min cannot see the win on my machine.



[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Thanks for the reference to Chunker, I will have to check it out. I have studied this endgame in great detail and believe it is truly amazing! But, I posted it for the benefit of others

[zullil]

A beautiful position that illustrates the advantage that a single tempo can give. Then zugzwang and black is lost. The key to this position is looking at it yourself, before using an engine. It's very instructive! Some very strong engine(s) also struggle here. Komodo CCT after 5 min cannot see the win on my machine.

[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Stockfish-3.0 (8 threads, 4 GB hash) sees a win:

Code: Select all

info depth 31 seldepth 101 score cp 8924 nodes 7158736399 nps 10565371 time 677566 multipv 1 pv [omitted]

[Dan Astrachan]

Critter needed about 8 minutes to find the winning move. I let the analysis run overnight:

[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Critter 1.6a x64, 4-Gb hash:

Code: Select all

 32/61	06:12	2 957 072 190	7 947 965	 0,00	a4 h5 a5 Kd7 a6 Kc7 b4 h4 Ke1 Kb6 b5 g5 Kf2 g4 Kg2 g3 Kf3 Ka7 Kg2 Kb6
 32/61+	07:38	3 656 933 988	7 976 839	+0,08	Ke2 Ke7 a4 Kd6 a5 Kc6 c4 Kb7 c5 Kc6 a6 g6 Kf3 h5 b4 f6 b5+
(...)
36/79+	8:22:10	227 958 190 537	7 564 322	+4,82	Ke2 Kd7 Kf3 h5 a4 Kc6 a5 Kb5 b4 Ka6 c4 g5 c5 g4+ Kg2 Kb7 Kg3 Kb8 b5 Kb7 a6+ Ka7 Kh4 f6 Kg3 f5 Kg2 f4 Kf2 h4 Kg1 h3 Kh2 f3 Kg3 h2 Kxh2 Ka8 b6 Kb8 Kg3 Ka8 a7 Kb7 c6+ Ka8 Kh2 g3+ Kxg3 f2 c7 f1N+ Kf3 Nh2+ Ke4 Kb7

Here is this variation in the form of a game. Variation ends at move 28, and I added the continuation, which is a TB mate in 4:

[pgn] [FEN "4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1"]
1.Ke2 Kd7 2.Kf3 h5 3.a4 Kc6 4.a5 Kb5 5.b4 Ka6 6.c4 g5 7.c5 g4+ 8.Kg2 Kb7 9.Kg3 Kb8 10.b5 Kb7 11.a6+ Ka7 12.Kh4 f6 13.Kg3 f5 14.Kg2 f4 15.Kf2 h4 16.Kg1 h3 17. Kh2 f3 18.Kg3 h2 19.Kxh2 Ka8 20.b6 Kb8 21.Kg3 Ka8 22.a7 Kb7 23.c6+ Ka8 24.Kh2 g3+ 25.Kxg3 f2 26.c7 f1=N+ 27.Kf3 Nh2+ 28.Ke4 Kb7 29.a8=Q+ Kxb6 30.c8=Q Kb5 31.Kd5 Nf3 32.Qcb8# * [/pgn]

Well done, Critter!

[Uri Blass]

A beautiful position that illustrates the advantage that a single tempo can give. Then zugzwang and black is lost. The key to this position is looking at it yourself, before using an engine. It's very instructive! Some very strong engine(s) also struggle here. Komodo CCT after 5 min cannot see the win on my machine.



[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Humans cannot calculate all possible lines so how looking at it by myself can help?

seeing the solution does not help to be able to practically win it because black can practically play a different move.

For example 1.Ke2 Ke7 or 1.Ke2 a5 or 1.Ke2 Kd7 2.Kf3 Kc6

Impossible to calculate all lines and if humans can understand that white wins then I would like to read some strategy that tells me what to do in every position and not a variation.

[Dan Astrachan]

Humans cannot calculate all possible lines so how looking at it by myself can help?

seeing the solution does not help to be able to practically win it because black can practically play a different move.

For example 1.Ke2 Ke7 or 1.Ke2 a5 or 1.Ke2 Kd7 2.Kf3 Kc6

Impossible to calculate all lines and if humans can understand that white wins then I would like to read some strategy that tells me what to do in every position and not a variation.

Extensive discussion of this position here => http://www.gadycosteff.com/eg/eg73.pdf

[GARGAMEL]

hallo

Carrera,P - _, Studie, Ke2
4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Critter 1.6a 64-bit:

1. +- (3.77) 1.Ke1! h5 2.Kf2 Kd7 3.Kg2 Kc6 4.a4 Kc5 5.a5 Kb5 6.b4 Ka6 7.c4 f6 8.Kg3 f5 9.Kg2 Kb7 10.b5 Kc7 11.a6 Kb6 12.c5+ Ka7 13.Kg3 g6 14.Kg2 f4 15.Kh1 g5 16.Kg1 Ka8 17.c6 Ka7 18.Kg2 Kb8 19.Kf3 Kc7 20.a7 g4+ 21.Kxf4
2. +- (2.73): 1.Ke2! Kd7 2.a4 h5 3.Kf3 Kc6 4.c4 Kb6 5.b4 Kb7 6.a5 Ka6 7.Kg3 f6 8.c5 Kb5 9.Kh4 g6 10.Kg3 f5 11.Kg2 f4 12.Kf2 h4 13.Kg1 Kc6 14.a6 Kc7 15.Kf2 Kb8 16.b5 Ka7 17.Kg1 Kb8 18.b6 Ka8 19.Kf1 h3 20.c6 h2 21.Kg2 Kb8 22.Kxh2 f3 23.b7 g5 24.Kg3 g4 25.Kh2 Ka7 26.c7

regards Anton

[Robert Flesher]

A beautiful position that illustrates the advantage that a single tempo can give. Then zugzwang and black is lost. The key to this position is looking at it yourself, before using an engine. It's very instructive! Some very strong engine(s) also struggle here. Komodo CCT after 5 min cannot see the win on my machine.



[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Humans cannot calculate all possible lines so how looking at it by myself can help?

seeing the solution does not help to be able to practically win it because black can practically play a different move.

For example 1.Ke2 Ke7 or 1.Ke2 a5 or 1.Ke2 Kd7 2.Kf3 Kc6

Impossible to calculate all lines and if humans can understand that white wins then I would like to read some strategy that tells me what to do in every position and not a variation.

Hi Uri, I did not say calculate it youself. I said look at the position yourself without an engine. You of all people I thought would understand this. LOL, I guess not!. I studied and learned the secrets of this postion without an engine. I wanted people to move the pieces and try to understand this position. I guess this was the wrong place to post this.

[duncan]

Critter needed about 8 minutes to find the winning move. I let the analysis run overnight:

[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

Critter 1.6a x64, 4-Gb hash:

Code: Select all

 32/61	06:12	2 957 072 190	7 947 965	 0,00	a4 h5 a5 Kd7 a6 Kc7 b4 h4 Ke1 Kb6 b5 g5 Kf2 g4 Kg2 g3 Kf3 Ka7 Kg2 Kb6
 32/61+	07:38	3 656 933 988	7 976 839	+0,08	Ke2 Ke7 a4 Kd6 a5 Kc6 c4 Kb7 c5 Kc6 a6 g6 Kf3 h5 b4 f6 b5+
(...)
36/79+	8:22:10	227 958 190 537	7 564 322	+4,82	Ke2 Kd7 Kf3 h5 a4 Kc6 a5 Kb5 b4 Ka6 c4 g5 c5 g4+ Kg2 Kb7 Kg3 Kb8 b5 Kb7 a6+ Ka7 Kh4 f6 Kg3 f5 Kg2 f4 Kf2 h4 Kg1 h3 Kh2 f3 Kg3 h2 Kxh2 Ka8 b6 Kb8 Kg3 Ka8 a7 Kb7 c6+ Ka8 Kh2 g3+ Kxg3 f2 c7 f1N+ Kf3 Nh2+ Ke4 Kb7

Here is this variation in the form of a game. Variation ends at move 28, and I added the continuation, which is a TB mate in 4:

[pgn] [FEN "4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1"]
1.Ke2 Kd7 2.Kf3 h5 3.a4 Kc6 4.a5 Kb5 5.b4 Ka6 6.c4 g5 7.c5 g4+ 8.Kg2 Kb7 9.Kg3 Kb8 10.b5 Kb7 11.a6+ Ka7 12.Kh4 f6 13.Kg3 f5 14.Kg2 f4 15.Kf2 h4 16.Kg1 h3 17. Kh2 f3 18.Kg3 h2 19.Kxh2 Ka8 20.b6 Kb8 21.Kg3 Ka8 22.a7 Kb7 23.c6+ Ka8 24.Kh2 g3+ 25.Kxg3 f2 26.c7 f1=N+ 27.Kf3 Nh2+ 28.Ke4 Kb7 29.a8=Q+ Kxb6 30.c8=Q Kb5 31.Kd5 Nf3 32.Qcb8# * [/pgn]

Well done, Critter!

if 8 black went kb5, finalgen shows it as unsolved. would you be able to show the win for white. ?

duncan