How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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fern
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How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by fern » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:32 pm

As an expert in that field, I can give several good advices:

a) Play them as you play human. No special openings and no memorizing of the unique occasion you got it wrong in the opening.
b) Play honestly to get the best of your effort and acumen and not looking for a way of doing of the game a dead thing. To play chess for not playing it is for me the climax of nonsense.
The sense of playing chess is the fun of using your brain and looking at the detours and accidents of a fight in the board. Just to win is senseless, specially if your win is suspicious.
c) No take backs. This sole measure guarantee your are not going to win. I dare to say 99.99 in 100 games where the human side say he won are the result of one or more take backs.
d) Not looking the PV lines in order to erase a move of yours before the punishment be played. This a take back slightly masked.
e) Play until the end and NOT declaring a draw when you see or believe things are more or less equal. That is cheating.

More later

fern

Adam Hair
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by Adam Hair » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:58 pm

Some of us are so naturally talented that we can ignore your rules and still lose with great frequency :)

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fern
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by fern » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:08 pm

hahaha good one....

fern

overlord
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by overlord » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:09 pm

Playing against engines is completly different discipline then chess games against man. Moreover if you play too much against engines your performance against man drastically decreases (my own experience). Generally said every player above 2000 Elo may get quite good results against engines but you have to know how to do it. I would define one very simple rule...your chances against engines are mathematical function not of your rating but function of pawns number at chessboard. (7-8 pawn - each side - very high draw chance), 6 pawns (symetrical - solid chance). 5 pawns and less in middlegame very low chances. This definition is of course very simplified (it depends also on opening choice - engines are very weak in kings indian and Dutch stonewall and on the contraty extraordinary strong in Najdorf and all shark lines).

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fern
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by fern » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:13 pm

My entire point is precisely NOT to play engines as a different discipline. My goal in playing chess is to get fun. I do not care the result. I expect to be crushed or defeated in one way or another. My thrill comes not of winning a program, but of making difficult to it to get the point. I play exactly the same against human and against comps. And of course i do not give a fig about my elo performance these days and never did. Chess is just a pass time for me.

My best
fern

Robert Flesher
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by Robert Flesher » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:13 pm

fern wrote:As an expert in that field, I can give several good advices:

a) Play them as you play human. No special openings and no memorizing of the unique occasion you got it wrong in the opening.
b) Play honestly to get the best of your effort and acumen and not looking for a way of doing of the game a dead thing. To play chess for not playing it is for me the climax of nonsense.
The sense of playing chess is the fun of using your brain and looking at the detours and accidents of a fight in the board. Just to win is senseless, specially if your win is suspicious.
c) No take backs. This sole measure guarantee your are not going to win. I dare to say 99.99 in 100 games where the human side say he won are the result of one or more take backs.
d) Not looking the PV lines in order to erase a move of yours before the punishment be played. This a take back slightly masked.
e) Play until the end and NOT declaring a draw when you see or believe things are more or less equal. That is cheating.

More later

fern

Love it! Great post!

Amstaff
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by Amstaff » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:43 pm

Fernando, an excellent post. I play my games exactly as you describe except I have been know to violate your last rule, but I agree, they should be played to the end. In my case, sometimes I play a long game and just get tired (I am about your age!!) and if the game is "even" after 25 moves, I have called it a draw in the past (never a win for me). But since you are my confessor, I recognize now my sin in this.
Dr. Gerald

gerold
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by gerold » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Robert Flesher wrote:
fern wrote:As an expert in that field, I can give several good advices:

a) Play them as you play human. No special openings and no memorizing of the unique occasion you got it wrong in the opening.
b) Play honestly to get the best of your effort and acumen and not looking for a way of doing of the game a dead thing. To play chess for not playing it is for me the climax of nonsense.
The sense of playing chess is the fun of using your brain and looking at the detours and accidents of a fight in the board. Just to win is senseless, specially if your win is suspicious.
c) No take backs. This sole measure guarantee your are not going to win. I dare to say 99.99 in 100 games where the human side say he won are the result of one or more take backs.
d) Not looking the PV lines in order to erase a move of yours before the punishment be played. This a take back slightly masked.
e) Play until the end and NOT declaring a draw when you see or believe things are more or less equal. That is cheating.

More later

fern

Love it! Great post!
Plus 3.

I play the giants everyday. No cheating allowed. I like to practice different openings.

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Kyodai
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by Kyodai » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:40 am

fern wrote:As an expert in that field, I can give several good advices:

a) Play them as you play human. No special openings and no memorizing of the unique occasion you got it wrong in the opening.
b) Play honestly to get the best of your effort and acumen and not looking for a way of doing of the game a dead thing. To play chess for not playing it is for me the climax of nonsense.
The sense of playing chess is the fun of using your brain and looking at the detours and accidents of a fight in the board. Just to win is senseless, specially if your win is suspicious.
c) No take backs. This sole measure guarantee your are not going to win. I dare to say 99.99 in 100 games where the human side say he won are the result of one or more take backs.
d) Not looking the PV lines in order to erase a move of yours before the punishment be played. This a take back slightly masked.
e) Play until the end and NOT declaring a draw when you see or believe things are more or less equal. That is cheating.

More later

fern
Yes, my philosophy regarding playing vs engines is exactly the same as
yours. Chess is chess and I want to play my own game - not looking
for some anticomputer openings or setup. Just for fun. Further more - like
some days ago when I got good play in a KI - okey then it's not so
interesting to repeat that particular opening. That's no fun - and also
that work is done... Some tweaked engines like Chessmaster and Lucas
personalities are interesting - since they are capable of some strong play -
but also make mistakes (like humans do). So I don't play these engines
to prove something... except maybe that ít's still possible to create
something on a chessboard.... And then play when the mood is right not
after som scheduele or "must".....

Of course there is also the ultimate challenge with say Houdini and a
Powerbook of 4GB... Then you play vs walls of chess knowledge - and
the challenge is to produce a good game... After all - chess is chess and
these engines are really no magicians... ;-)

ryan711
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Re: How to Lose to chess computers and/or engines

Post by ryan711 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:09 am

Playing against chess engine is a good way of training to improve your chess skill. The concept is similar to isometrics like pushing a concrete wall with all your strength. Doing this repetitively for a length of time will definitely increase your physical strength. After playing a hundred games against engines, my score is 0. But when I play against humans, I see a clear increase in my performance.

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