Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

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gleperlier
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by gleperlier » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:39 pm


pichy
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by pichy » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:39 pm

Don wrote:
Uri Blass wrote:
Don wrote:
gleperlier wrote:
Uri Blass wrote:unfortunately it seems that this event is only a rapid chess event.

I would like to know if karpov can get good results today also at long time control.

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/cap-d ... emi-finals

Note that karpov has better rating today at rapid time control relative to longer time control.

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=4100026

Karpov already won another tournament at rapid chess convincingly

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... -11-01&t=1
Yeah, he seams to be specialized in rapid chess now :wink:
Older players do relatively better at rapid chess I have heard. I think this is due to the fatigue factor, long time controls games are physically demanding and exhausting.

It could be that their experience is more of a benefit at fast levels even though I would have thought it would be other way around. You would think that calculation ability would diminish with age and favor the younger player and maybe it does, but then again maybe those other factors (experience, knowledge, etc) are just more important. Maybe the difference is having to figure things out versus already knowing the answer.
or maybe karpov learned chess lately and he can also get good results at longer time control.
The only way to know is if he plays longer time control again.
Are you saying that Karpov has suddenly learned to play chess?

I think it's unrealistic to believe Karpov is better than he was before, but in his prime he would be a top player today, perhaps even number 1.

On the other hand, some players don't decline that quickly and stay close to the best for many years. I've always wondered if part of that was just because they lose their "hunger" when they get older and wiser. No doubt age doesn't help but I don't know how much it hurts and I'm sure it depends on the person.

I personally believe he was better than Fischer comparing both to their prime. In fact had Fisher and Karpov played for the world championship as they should have, it could have gone either way in my opinion.
I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606

Hood
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Hood » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:58 pm

Don wrote: Older players do relatively better at rapid chess I have heard. I think this is due to the fatigue factor, long time controls games are physically demanding and exhausting.

It could be that their experience is more of a benefit at fast levels even though I would have thought it would be other way around. You would think that calculation ability would diminish with age and favor the younger player and maybe it does, but then again maybe those other factors (experience, knowledge, etc) are just more important. Maybe the difference is having to figure things out versus already knowing the answer.
Agree, in rapid chess intuition and experience plays more then calculation.
rgds Hood
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pichy
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by pichy » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:37 pm

Hood wrote:
Don wrote: Older players do relatively better at rapid chess I have heard. I think this is due to the fatigue factor, long time controls games are physically demanding and exhausting.

It could be that their experience is more of a benefit at fast levels even though I would have thought it would be other way around. You would think that calculation ability would diminish with age and favor the younger player and maybe it does, but then again maybe those other factors (experience, knowledge, etc) are just more important. Maybe the difference is having to figure things out versus already knowing the answer.
Agree, in rapid chess intuition and experience plays more then calculation.
rgds Hood
In that case what would you say if the younger player is already 43 years old like Ivanchuck, isn't over 40 a little bit old too and Ivanchuck has a vast amount of experience under his belt, what I do believe is the fact that once in awhile a great player rated 100 rating higher than the rest like Ivanchuck and GM Nakamura are out of form for whatever reason . :wink:
http://www.chessbase.de/nachrichten.asp?newsid=13570

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Don
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Don » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:03 pm

pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:21 pm

Don wrote:
pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
I do think that Fischer would have win his first match against Karpov....

Fischer's playing style is way unorthodoxal compared to Karpov's playing style and that would generate a lot of trouble for Karpov over the chess board....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Don
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Don » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
I do think that Fischer would have win his first match against Karpov....

Fischer's playing style is way unorthodoxal compared to Karpov's playing style and that would generate a lot of trouble for Karpov over the chess board....
Dr.D
It would certainly have been interesting, but I would make the case that it might work the other way around too. Karpov was the best defender ever and solid as a rock - that would have been very frustrating to Fischer who hated a draw.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:39 pm

Don wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
I do think that Fischer would have win his first match against Karpov....

Fischer's playing style is way unorthodoxal compared to Karpov's playing style and that would generate a lot of trouble for Karpov over the chess board....
Dr.D
It would certainly have been interesting, but I would make the case that it might work the other way around too. Karpov was the best defender ever and solid as a rock - that would have been very frustrating to Fischer who hated a draw.
Yep,a valid point,I agree....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Don
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Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by Don » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:42 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
I do think that Fischer would have win his first match against Karpov....

Fischer's playing style is way unorthodoxal compared to Karpov's playing style and that would generate a lot of trouble for Karpov over the chess board....
Dr.D
It would certainly have been interesting, but I would make the case that it might work the other way around too. Karpov was the best defender ever and solid as a rock - that would have been very frustrating to Fischer who hated a draw.
Yep,a valid point,I agree....
Dr.D
What is too bad is that we never got to see that match.

Don
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:04 am

Re: Karpov is back and playing damn strong !

Post by pichy » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:08 pm

Don wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
pichy wrote: I also believe that the reason why Fischer refused to play against Karpov back the 70's has a lot to do with Fischer being afraid of facing Mr. Karpov in his prime. That explained why he came back in 1992 to play versus Spasky instead.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8606
I agree. He feared Karpov who was a cut above anyone he had ever played before. By not playing Karpov he was disrespecting him because he forced Karpov to undeservedly live in his shadow and that was shameful on his part. If I were Karpov I would rather play and lose than to win by default and have people say you were only world champion by default.

I do think Karpov would probably have lost the first match against Fischer - but we will never know. Karpov was still improving throughout the 70's and Fischer had probably already peaked in 72 (and would likely have been in top form for another cycle.)
I do think that Fischer would have win his first match against Karpov....

Fischer's playing style is way unorthodoxal compared to Karpov's playing style and that would generate a lot of trouble for Karpov over the chess board....
Dr.D
It would certainly have been interesting, but I would make the case that it might work the other way around too. Karpov was the best defender ever and solid as a rock - that would have been very frustrating to Fischer who hated a draw.
Yep,a valid point,I agree....
Dr.D
What is too bad is that we never got to see that match.

Don
What you have mentioned is very interesting and it happened so many times in higher level chess. When a player doesn't like to draw games sometimes they tend to make suicidal moves and it work against them. Take for instance GM Nakamura whenever the position looks drawish against an inferior or lower rated player he often makes very unusual and unsafe moves which end up biting him at the end.

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