a general moderation point ....

[Terry McCracken]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

There is also the matter of the forums blatant announement showing the "Users browsing this forum: ", isn't that an invasion of my privacy? If I want to browse talkchess it's nobody's business but my own!

Maybe we can complain about all these human rights infraction to the "American Civil Liberties Union" and get some changes made!

This is way more interesting than the Rybka/ICGA debacle, finally a real cause for the super bored people to take up!!!

You can use the privacy settings and no one will see you, other than hidden on the main screen, home page. Anyway, this is all a distraction due to the fact I'm a moderator in CTF.

[syzygy]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

There is also the matter of the forums blatant announement showing the "Users browsing this forum: ", isn't that an invasion of my privacy? If I want to browse talkchess it's nobody's business but my own!

Maybe we can complain about all these human rights infraction to the "American Civil Liberties Union" and get some changes made!

This is way more interesting than the Rybka/ICGA debacle, finally a real cause for the super bored people to take up!!!

Why do you feel the need to ridicule? It may come as a surprise to you, but some people do care about privacy issues even in this internet age.

[Sam Hull]

I'm on the beach in the Mediterrean sun and am quite relaxed thank you

This cross forum editing was in place in the past when I knew about it, if its changed now, good.

It's been the way it is now since day 1 as far as I know. When we first moved to this software only Tim had access to Help and Suggestions. Some joker came along and spammed all three forums with a host of obscenities and such. CCC and CTF mods got their forums cleaned up in short order but Tim was awol and nobody could do anything about Help and Suggestions. Several members, Steve B. I specifically recall, were quite irate.

After that all moderators were given access to Help and Suggestions. So careful if you post there - I can get 'ya.

What about IP address knowledge though? Can ALL mods see my IP? Can they track someone movign around? IP address probign should be heavily restricted imo, do you remember the case of the African guy from Zambia? who was pursued not just by CTF mods a few years ago, but by CTF users in on the game? They were even telephonign him in Africa as "proof". Straight racism of course, blacks can't write chess programs or make intelligent posts seemed the theme. If you can't guarantee the calibre of mods, then you should not give them these tools.

I can see your IP.

Best
Dan H.

Since I am here all the time - and for various other reasons - we have returned to the original model this term and the sysop is the moderator for Help and Suggestions. If anyone has strong objections let me know.

Thanks,
-Sam-

[Don]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

There is also the matter of the forums blatant announement showing the "Users browsing this forum: ", isn't that an invasion of my privacy? If I want to browse talkchess it's nobody's business but my own!

Maybe we can complain about all these human rights infraction to the "American Civil Liberties Union" and get some changes made!

This is way more interesting than the Rybka/ICGA debacle, finally a real cause for the super bored people to take up!!!

Why do you feel the need to ridicule? It may come as a surprise to you, but some people do care about privacy issues even in this internet age.

Because this is beyond ridiculous. The fact that some people care about some particular thing doesn't make that thing so important the world should bend over backwards for them. There is almost no concept that cannot be taken too far or way over done - this is where some degree of reasonableness should come into play.

For example the thought that the moderators will be tracking your movements during your travels around the world and the paranoia that someone will actually write a post about the fear - that is just plain unreasonable. Is it possible to do something like that? I suppose it is, but you had better have a pretty vivid imagination to think about what we are going to do with that information or have a huge EGO to think you are so important that we care and would go to the trouble. I couldn't stop laughing when I read that, I imagined a big map on the wall with pins as we tried to track the movements of some chess forum member by carefully scrutinizing his forum post! Give me a break for calling attention to the fact that something ridiculous is ridiculous.

[syzygy]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

There is also the matter of the forums blatant announement showing the "Users browsing this forum: ", isn't that an invasion of my privacy? If I want to browse talkchess it's nobody's business but my own!

Maybe we can complain about all these human rights infraction to the "American Civil Liberties Union" and get some changes made!

This is way more interesting than the Rybka/ICGA debacle, finally a real cause for the super bored people to take up!!!

Why do you feel the need to ridicule? It may come as a surprise to you, but some people do care about privacy issues even in this internet age.

Because this is beyond ridiculous. The fact that some people care about some particular thing doesn't make that thing so important the world should bend over backwards for them.

The latter is true, but that does not mean you gain anything by ridiculising. Instead of ridiculising people's values, you could simply offer some sensible counterarguments. Were you not a moderator by the way?

[Rebel]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

There is also the matter of the forums blatant announement showing the "Users browsing this forum: ", isn't that an invasion of my privacy? If I want to browse talkchess it's nobody's business but my own!

Maybe we can complain about all these human rights infraction to the "American Civil Liberties Union" and get some changes made!

This is way more interesting than the Rybka/ICGA debacle, finally a real cause for the super bored people to take up!!!

Why do you feel the need to ridicule? It may come as a surprise to you, but some people do care about privacy issues even in this internet age.

Because this is beyond ridiculous. The fact that some people care about some particular thing doesn't make that thing so important the world should bend over backwards for them. There is almost no concept that cannot be taken too far or way over done - this is where some degree of reasonableness should come into play.

For example the thought that the moderators will be tracking your movements during your travels around the world and the paranoia that someone will actually write a post about the fear - that is just plain unreasonable. Is it possible to do something like that? I suppose it is, but you had better have a pretty vivid imagination to think about what we are going to do with that information or have a huge EGO to think you are so important that we care and would go to the trouble. I couldn't stop laughing when I read that, I imagined a big map on the wall with pins as we tried to track the movements of some chess forum member by carefully scrutinizing his forum post! Give me a break for calling attention to the fact that something ridiculous is ridiculous.

I have the feeling when someone else than Chris would have addressed similar concerns this topic would have been less loaded.

[Don]

The latter is true, but that does not mean you gain anything by ridiculising. Instead of ridiculising people's values, you could simply offer some sensible counterarguments. Were you not a moderator by the way?

You are suggesting a serious discussion? I reserve serious discussion for serious issues.

I'm sure there are people who stay awake at night worrying that someone might know what the IP address of their network is - and I feel badly for them because they are sick. But it's not a serious discussion because such people should realize that whenever you are on the Internet you are sending your IP address to a socket somewhere - probably thousands of times per day. If you are a person who worries about such thing then talkchess is the least of your worries. There are much more worthy causes you can do battle with.

[syzygy]

The latter is true, but that does not mean you gain anything by ridiculising. Instead of ridiculising people's values, you could simply offer some sensible counterarguments. Were you not a moderator by the way?

You are suggesting a serious discussion? I reserve serious discussion for serious issues.

I'm sure there are people who stay awake at night worrying that someone might know what the IP address of their network is - and I feel badly for them because they are sick. But it's not a serious discussion because such people should realize that whenever you are on the Internet you are sending your IP address to a socket somewhere - probably thousands of times per day. If you are a person who worries about such thing then talkchess is the least of your worries. There are much more worthy causes you can do battle with.

Again, why do you feel the need to talk people down?

[fern]

Of course. Chris is kind of a rock star and I say it with good will. He has the talent -between many, no doubts- to attract attention. Sometimes is because the point he makes, sometimes just because he say it very well.
Yesterday I played last Pro deo and guess what..
Fern

[geots]

Congrats to the CCC mods. There are a few issues that concern.

Any complaint sent in by the ! button concerning here or the EO forum is displayed in full, together with mod responses on a general mod forum which is open to CTF mods as well. Under normal circumstances this would not perhaps appear a problem, except that I feel it inappropriate to make a ! complaint about a misbehaving CTF mod that can be read immediately, edited, deleted by same misbehaving CTF mod. Is it possible to flag up ! complaints such that they go to forum mods specifically and not mods who are unrelated to the forum in question?

Secondly, you might think this post should be in Help and Suggestions, but, again in that case, I, and possibly others, won't post into that forum for obvious reasons.

Thirdly, all user IP addresses are immediately available to all mods, including those not responsible for the forum one is actually reading or writing to. There are certain individuals I deem it inappropriate to have access to my IP address. Is it actually necessary for mods to have access at all? I can see only bad coming from that knowledge on such a universal and simple basis.

We are not accountable for what happens in CTF, Chris.

My suggestion: take screenshots to serve as proofs if you fear a post will be edited. A mod must follow the forum's charter and be exemplary. If he doesn't he gets banned, just like everybody. The alternate mod's point is not only to make coffee for the three others.

indeed you are not accountable for CTF, neither am I, I don't post there. But why do CTF mods get access to my, and everybody's, IP address, even when we shun the place?

I was not referrign to posts being edited, but to ! complaint messages beign edited. Miguel suggests that the system is changed now, and only forum mods get to see ! complaints and not mods from other forums - is that true now?

Also, since you reminded me, forum posts are deletable, editable by ANY mod, not necessarily the mod thta deals with the forum in question, any mod can also mess with your user details etc. In present circumstances, unless this has been changed, I see again only bad from such a widespread access to personal data. Can, or is it already changed, it be possible to restrict mod access to those of us who dont go near CTF?

As to me takign screenshots!! too much hassle. why shoudl I have to?

No, a mod from CTF can't edit posts here, nor can we edit posts in CTF. And, as Miguel said, we can't even access the CTF complaints, so they can't access ours. Relax.

I'm on the beach in the Mediterrean sun and am quite relaxed thank you

This cross forum editing was in place in the past when I knew about it, if its changed now, good.

What about IP address knowledge though? Can ALL mods see my IP? Can they track someone movign around? IP address probign should be heavily restricted imo, do you remember the case of the African guy from Zambia? who was pursued not just by CTF mods a few years ago, but by CTF users in on the game? They were even telephonign him in Africa as "proof". Straight racism of course, blacks can't write chess programs or make intelligent posts seemed the theme. If you can't guarantee the calibre of mods, then you should not give them these tools.

Chris, there is one way to get around all this and IP addresses would be academic. It is extremely interesting, but NOT worth going to the trouble to set up. It would only be an advantage if you were already set up that way. But interesting. I found out once, quite by accident, that anyone who is on a dial-up modem and uses AOL- they ALL show the same IP address. But it has to have both- you go thru AOL and you use a dial up. You could set it up and flip a switch to only go to TalkChess that way, but you still got an added charge from AOL and your phone provider. So not practical- but interesting nevertheless.


george