How about we settle the WCCC argument?

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Peter Skinner
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Peter Skinner » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Harvey Williamson wrote: The quote is 100% accurate. The moderators should check before acting.
Harvey, since you like to post private messages from your forum here, please post the entire conversation.

Since you granted my wish and removed my account from the Hiarcs forum, I can no longer access the messages there. Oddly it was removed just after you posted my message here.

Wasn't it you who found it disgusting that Chris W and Chris C posted private messages and private emails publicly previously on this forum?

Odd how the World has changed...

Peter
I got kicked out of Chapters because I moved all the Bible's to the fiction section.

chrisw
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by chrisw » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Peter Skinner wrote:
chrisw wrote: Would the moderators please investigate this "misquote" to determine if (a) it was deliberate and (b) specifically placed onto this forum and (c) malicious and, if this is found to be the case, take strongest possible action against the perpetrator?
Oh no, that was _exactly_ what I said, in a private message to Harvey on the Hiarcs forum after he basically accused me of supporting piracy with this tournament.

No need to investigate. I have _zero_ issue owning up to my own words. I would have done it sooner, but I missed the moderation message in that reply.

Peter
Well, leaving aside unauthorised(?) publication of PMs, there's a pretty serious mismatch between the implications of that message and your statements in this thread. Can you explain please?

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Harvey Williamson » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:57 pm

Peter Skinner wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote: The quote is 100% accurate. The moderators should check before acting.
Harvey, since you like to post private messages from your forum here, please post the entire conversation.

Since you granted my wish and removed my account from the Hiarcs forum, I can no longer access the messages there. Oddly it was removed just after you posted my message here.

Wasn't it you who found it disgusting that Chris W and Chris C posted private messages and private emails publicly previously on this forum?

Odd how the World has changed...

Peter
Peter it would never have been posted here if you had not alluded to what i said in the post i replied to.

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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Peter Skinner » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:59 pm

chrisw wrote: For the record:

Well, leaving aside unauthorised(?) publication of PMs, there's a pretty serious mismatch between the implications of that message and your statements in this thread. Can you explain please?
1. Yes, I do think this type of tournament is useless, and will wind up being a hardware/book battle that several users here complain about in the WCCC thread. I have PM'd several people these _exact_ sentiments. Many will confirm.

2. I'm willing to run the event because there is interest in it. There is also the possibility of some exciting chess, which I have stated more times than I have been married, that I prefer. So this interests me.

3. There seems to be enormous excitement over the announcement of the "idea". So I created and am willing to spend my free weekend running it. (I don't get many these days)

4. After sleeping on it (Yesterday was a seriously long day), this tournament does seem like a good idea. Why not allow everything and anything into an event to see which combo will be the strongest? It's different, that's for sure.

5. As shown by my friend Harvey, I do think the WCCC/CCT rules could be tweaked. I admit that. I am not an ICGA member.

Ask and I will answer. I have _zero_ to hide by running this event.

Peter
I got kicked out of Chapters because I moved all the Bible's to the fiction section.

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michiguel
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by michiguel » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Harvey Williamson wrote:
chrisw wrote:
michiguel wrote:
Jeroen wrote:It appears that the real reason for this tournament is slightly different:

The whole point of the tournament is to prove how utterly useless it is, and what a waste of time it will be. Nothing more. The reason the ICGA has good tournament rules (And I try to follow the same rules with the CCT) is because it weeds out the crap. I'm out to prove that with 90 derivatives entering, it will become what everyone bitches about. A hardware/book war. Nothing more.

But you are making a huge mistake in thinking that this is a waste of time and 'utterly useless'. People want to see:

A) the strongest programs
B) the best hardware
C) the best books

Remember Freestyle? That was a HUGE success. And in Freestyle 90%-100% of the players used Rybka. Basically you are organising a Freestyle tournament with more variety and the 'engine only' option!
You are quoting someone who misquote Peter. He did not say that. Someone else did it sarcastically. Please, people, make sure the quotes are correct, otherwise this turns into a mess. I will encourage the person who started the misquote to fix the problem.

Miguel
Would the moderators please investigate this "misquote" to determine if (a) it was deliberate and (b) specifically placed onto this forum and (c) malicious and, if this is found to be the case, take strongest possible action against the perpetrator?
The quote is 100% accurate. The moderators should check before acting.
The misquote was referred to Robert, who quoted Peter, replying to you Harvey. In your post, you seemed to quote Peter out of thin air and it was not clear what it was. It looked sarcastic to me, but I am nobody to judge that. I did not touch your post, but I made a comment on Robert's post. So, I did not "act" on your message, and that is the main purpose of my yet another clarification. If Peter is fine with you posting a private message, we have nothing to say. EDIT: But it is not clear this is the case.

Miguel

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Don
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Don » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Peter Skinner wrote:
chrisw wrote: For the record:

Well, leaving aside unauthorised(?) publication of PMs, there's a pretty serious mismatch between the implications of that message and your statements in this thread. Can you explain please?
1. Yes, I do think this type of tournament is useless, and will wind up being a hardware/book battle that several users here complain about in the WCCC thread. I have PM'd several people these _exact_ sentiments. Many will confirm.

2. I'm willing to run the event because there is interest in it. There is also the possibility of some exciting chess, which I have stated more times than I have been married, that I prefer. So this interests me.

3. There seems to be enormous excitement over the announcement of the "idea". So I created and am willing to spend my free weekend running it. (I don't get many these days)

4. After sleeping on it (Yesterday was a seriously long day), this tournament does seem like a good idea. Why not allow everything and anything into an event to see which combo will be the strongest? It's different, that's for sure.

5. As shown by my friend Harvey, I do think the WCCC/CCT rules could be tweaked. I admit that. I am not an ICGA member.

Ask and I will answer. I have _zero_ to hide by running this event.

Peter
Nobody ever said the ICGA was perfect or had perfect rules. They run a great tournament but I have yet to a see any group of people run a perfect organization with no problems, no criticisms, no rough edges ever.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

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Peter Skinner
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Peter Skinner » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Harvey Williamson wrote: Peter it would never have been posted here if you had not alluded to what i said in the post i replied to.
Then Harvey, post the entire conversation.

You stated that my signature on the Hiarcs Forum was now misleading:

Peter Skinner
Kikrtech.com
Authors Against Piracy

Did I not state that I still remove links on file sharing sites for Hiarcs, Shredder, Junior, Fritz and other programs? Did you also not state that Hiarcs would likely never enter one of my events again over running this type of tournament?

Just post the entire conversation with my permission so this can be cleared up. I am more than willing to admit to _anything_ I have said.

Peter
I got kicked out of Chapters because I moved all the Bible's to the fiction section.

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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Peter Skinner » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:06 pm

michiguel wrote: If Peter is fine with you posting a private message, we have nothing to say. EDIT: But it is not clear this is the case.

Miguel
I wasn't fine with it, but seeing how he wants to share what we say in private, I would like the whole conversation brought out.

That was one message in a series of several replies. It's only fair to see both sides...

So either he posts the entire conversation, or I would like the original one removed. Seems fair to me.

Peter
I got kicked out of Chapters because I moved all the Bible's to the fiction section.

chrisw
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by chrisw » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:20 pm

Peter Skinner wrote:
chrisw wrote: For the record:

Well, leaving aside unauthorised(?) publication of PMs, there's a pretty serious mismatch between the implications of that message and your statements in this thread. Can you explain please?
1. Yes, I do think this type of tournament is useless, and will wind up being a hardware/book battle that several users here complain about in the WCCC thread. I have PM'd several people these _exact_ sentiments. Many will confirm.

2. I'm willing to run the event because there is interest in it. There is also the possibility of some exciting chess, which I have stated more times than I have been married, that I prefer. So this interests me.

3. There seems to be enormous excitement over the announcement of the "idea". So I created and am willing to spend my free weekend running it. (I don't get many these days)

4. After sleeping on it (Yesterday was a seriously long day), this tournament does seem like a good idea. Why not allow everything and anything into an event to see which combo will be the strongest? It's different, that's for sure.

5. As shown by my friend Harvey, I do think the WCCC/CCT rules could be tweaked. I admit that. I am not an ICGA member.

Ask and I will answer. I have _zero_ to hide by running this event.

Peter
Well, what you say to Harvey is your own business, although personally I wouldn't give him the time of day. I guess, however, in the light of the PM contents, the question potential participants will want answered before handing over their $100 is this:

Will you commit to run this tournament with the absolute intention of making it a success?

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: How about we settle the WCCC argument?

Post by Harvey Williamson » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:21 pm

Peter Skinner wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote: Peter it would never have been posted here if you had not alluded to what i said in the post i replied to.
Then Harvey, post the entire conversation.

You stated that my signature on the Hiarcs Forum was now misleading:

Peter Skinner
Kikrtech.com
Authors Against Piracy

Did I not state that I still remove links on file sharing sites for Hiarcs, Shredder, Junior, Fritz and other programs? Did you also not state that Hiarcs would likely never enter one of my events again over running this type of tournament?

Just post the entire conversation with my permission so this can be cleared up. I am more than willing to admit to _anything_ I have said.

Peter
btw i can reactivate your a/c whenever you want nothing is deleted.

1st one and your reply:
Peter Skinner wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Sorry Peter I am not going to allow you to advertise this tournament here. I doubt Hiarcs will ever play in 1 of your events again. Your signature now seems a little strange:
Peter Skinner
http://www.kikrtech.com
Authors Against Piracy
But I guess you might make some money out of it.

Best Wishes,
Harvey
The whole point of the tournament is to prove how utterly useless it is, and what a waste of time it will be. Nothing more.

The reason the ICGA has good tournament rules (And I try to follow the same rules with the CCT) is because it weeds out the crap.

I'm out to prove that with 90 derivatives entering, it will become what everyone bitches about. A hardware/book war. Nothing more.

Peter
You then sent this before i replied to you:
Sorry, I just realized there was a second part of the message.

How exactly is allowing someone to play with an engine that is freely available on the internet supporting piracy?

And I'm sorry to hear that Hiarcs won't be participating in the CCT's anymore. I will remove you guys from my invitation list.

Peter
Then my reply and yours:
Peter Skinner wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote: I did not realise that engines available on the net by definition could not be pirated.

strange definition you have.
What I meant was engines like Houdini, Robbolitto, Ippolit... they are freely available. Same as Crafty, Arasan...

I was not talking about engines like Hiarcs, Shredder, Fritz, Junior.. all of which I still remove links for almost daily.

Surely if someone purchases an engine, they should be able to enter it in to a fun event like this.

Jesus Harvey, this event was trying to prove a point. You seem to take it quite personally.

If you don't want me to advertise it here, that is fine. This is your board, but to suddenly accuse me of supporting piracy goes too far.

Just delete my account from here. I won't both posting here again about any event.

Peter
Then the final ones
Peter Skinner wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote: ok hope you make some money out of your mad event.
If all you see it as is a cash grab, then you miss the point of it entirely.

Good luck with Hiarcs Harvey. This is likely the last time we will speak.

Peter

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