World Computer Chess Championship ?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
bob
Posts: 20471
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by bob » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:20 pm

Kingghidorah wrote:
mcostalba wrote:Ok this arrogant and fossilized organization called ICGA really made me get angry and I looked a bit in their site to know a bit more about them. Apart that it really seems "dead and buried", last interesting content is years ago old, I was really impressed by what they call: "World Computer Chess Championship" , the last edition of this farsa was in 2011 and below the list of participants:

http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/t ... php?id=239

Code: Select all

1	Junior	
2	Hiarcs	
2	Shredder	
4	Pandix	
4	Jonny		
6	The Baron	
7	Booot	
8	Rookie3.4	
9	Woodpusher 1997
Now the first question that comes to my mind is to what "world" they refer in the title of the event ? Mars ? Underwater world ? Surely not chess engines landscape in 2011, this is clear even to the dumbest. So how they have the presumption to call this marketing event, for the only benefit of legacy commercial engines, "World Computer Chess Championship" ? Because of historical reasons ? Sorry, this is not enough IMHO.

... I am not talking of the engine authors (which I respect all) but of the organization that shameless call itself "computer chess world" !
Amen to that brother. :D
For the record, there have been criticisms of EVERY WCCC event. The most common: "everyone uses different hardware..."

mcostalba
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by mcostalba » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:34 pm

bob wrote: For the record, there have been criticisms of EVERY WCCC event. The most common: "everyone uses different hardware..."
And, for the record, do you have also some comment "on topic" ? I mean specifically addressing what has been written ? (not what you think has been written, sometime in the past the difference has been huge :-) )

User avatar
Don
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by Don » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:55 pm

mcostalba wrote:
bob wrote: For the record, there have been criticisms of EVERY WCCC event. The most common: "everyone uses different hardware..."
And, for the record, do you have also some comment "on topic" ? I mean specifically addressing what has been written ? (not what you think has been written, sometime in the past the difference has been huge :-) )
You opened this thread with critical post aimed at the ICGA - I don't see how this is not on that topic. His post is much more on topic than the one you just made, another critical post that doesn't have anything to do with computer chess at all, just a personal complain against a posting style. All your forum posts are critical now - what is going on with you?
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

mcostalba
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by mcostalba » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:39 pm

Don wrote: You opened this thread with critical post aimed at the ICGA - I don't see how this is not on that topic.
It is not on topic becuase does not address the content of what has been written in the previous posts.

BTW also you have never addressed any specific content point in this thread....just a kind reminder :-)
Don wrote:
His post is much more on topic than the one you just made, another critical post that doesn't have anything to do with computer chess at all, just a personal complain against a posting style.
His post was along the lines of "ok, this is like the usual sh*** we have to hear at any WCCCC event"

User avatar
Don
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by Don » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:33 pm

mcostalba wrote:
Don wrote: You opened this thread with critical post aimed at the ICGA - I don't see how this is not on that topic.
It is not on topic becuase does not address the content of what has been written in the previous posts.

BTW also you have never addressed any specific content point in this thread....just a kind reminder :-)
That's true, but I'm not critical of off-topic posts - so even if I thought this was off-topic I would not care.

In general talkchess has always been very tolerant of content, never critical or harsh beyond reason. This is not necessarily true of every member, but most members do not care if a topic ends up about fishing or drinking beer or something else. We discourage too much of that, but it's generally well tolerated if it's done in moderation.
Don wrote:
His post is much more on topic than the one you just made, another critical post that doesn't have anything to do with computer chess at all, just a personal complain against a posting style.
His post was along the lines of "ok, this is like the usual sh*** we have to hear at any WCCCC event"
Have you been at any of these events? They are very well run and the contestants get a lot of feedback. It's very democratic. I don't care if the guy downloading Ippolito disapproves of Bob Hyatt or the ICGA, to each his own. The ICGA does a fine job and they are very dedicated people, they are not these outsiders who know nothing about computer chess.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 9408
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by Laskos » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:00 pm

Don wrote:
Have you been at any of these events? They are very well run and the contestants get a lot of feedback. It's very democratic. I don't care if the guy downloading Ippolito disapproves of Bob Hyatt or the ICGA, to each his own. The ICGA does a fine job and they are very dedicated people, they are not these outsiders who know nothing about computer chess.
True, all these useless "tourneys" like WCCC seem an insider job.

mcostalba
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by mcostalba » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:00 pm

Don wrote: Have you been at any of these events? They are very well run and the contestants get a lot of feedback. It's very democratic. I don't care if the guy downloading Ippolito disapproves of Bob Hyatt or the ICGA, to each his own. The ICGA does a fine job and they are very dedicated people, they are not these outsiders who know nothing about computer chess.
??

No I didn't mean that. You asked why I reacted like that and this is because the post of Bob was like "every time there is a fool that criticizes the WCCC for the most silly reasons and this is just another one". Ok this could be true but just stating this without any specific argument seemed to me a cheap comment.

bob
Posts: 20471
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by bob » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:19 pm

mcostalba wrote:
bob wrote: For the record, there have been criticisms of EVERY WCCC event. The most common: "everyone uses different hardware..."
And, for the record, do you have also some comment "on topic" ? I mean specifically addressing what has been written ? (not what you think has been written, sometime in the past the difference has been huge :-) )
I believe I "did". How can ANY event be called a "world championship" unless EVERY country is represented? How can ANY event be called a "world computer chess championship" when all sorts of hardware disparity are allowed? When commercial authors who do this full-time compete with amateur authors that do it part-time?

I believe my point was clear enough. Did the best player in the world compete in the WCC this year? Didn't see Kasparov playing. Does that mean it is not the WCC any longer? Was Karpov the best player in the world in 1975, without playing Fischer? Did he get the title?

WCC does NOT necessarily mean the best player in the world, never has... never will...

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 9408
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by Laskos » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:28 pm

bob wrote:
mcostalba wrote:
bob wrote: For the record, there have been criticisms of EVERY WCCC event. The most common: "everyone uses different hardware..."
And, for the record, do you have also some comment "on topic" ? I mean specifically addressing what has been written ? (not what you think has been written, sometime in the past the difference has been huge :-) )
I believe I "did". How can ANY event be called a "world championship" unless EVERY country is represented? How can ANY event be called a "world computer chess championship" when all sorts of hardware disparity are allowed? When commercial authors who do this full-time compete with amateur authors that do it part-time?

I believe my point was clear enough. Did the best player in the world compete in the WCC this year? Didn't see Kasparov playing. Does that mean it is not the WCC any longer? Was Karpov the best player in the world in 1975, without playing Fischer? Did he get the title?

WCC does NOT necessarily mean the best player in the world, never has... never will...
Could they name it differently? Otherwise, what an unaware reader can deduce from this ChessBase ads?

Code: Select all

Written by Amir Ban and Shay Bushinsky, Junior has won multiple World Computer Chess Championships, and now, in version 12, its playing strength has been further increased – by around 200 Elo points
The strength description is associated textually with WCCC (spelled and not abbreviated).

Kai

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 9408
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?

Post by Laskos » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:56 pm

Laskos wrote:
bob wrote:
WCC does NOT necessarily mean the best player in the world, never has... never will...
Could they name it differently? Otherwise, what an unaware reader can deduce from this ChessBase ads?

Code: Select all

Written by Amir Ban and Shay Bushinsky, Junior has won multiple World Computer Chess Championships, and now, in version 12, its playing strength has been further increased – by around 200 Elo points
The strength description is associated textually with WCCC (spelled and not abbreviated).

Kai
Even better on Hiarcs page:

Code: Select all

Deep Junior 13 UCI chess engine

The World Computer Chess Champion chess engine for PC MS Windows
Suitable for all players including the World Chess Champion
Platform: PC MS Windows™ 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7 (all versions including 32&64 bit)
Playing ability: World Chess Championship strength (3200+ Elo)†   
Engine authors: Amir Ban and Shay Bushinsky, Opening book author: GM Alon Greenfeld
Here the association is direct, "Playing ability: World Chess Championship strength (3200+ Elo)†". Really, rename that crap called WCCC.

Kai

Post Reply