Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

[zullil]

On my smartphone I have 32 bit version of Critter. I don´t know if it is the same version as for normal pieces. Maybe author could tell more.

This may explain the weak play by Critter I commented on earlier. I thought you were playing against Critter running 3 threads on a real cpu.

[overlord]

I have the same opinion. I played against Critter 1.4 32 bit on smartphone. I have one draw against Houdini 1.5a on 3 cores of PC and many draws against much weaker engines like Cheng, Fritz 5.32 or Fritz 6. I have never said that I am able to beat top engines on something like i7 with good book...definitely no...

[zullil]

I have the same opinion. I played against Critter 1.4 32 bit on smartphone. I have one draw against Houdini 1.5a on 3 cores of PC and many draws against much weaker engines like Cheng, Fritz 5.32 or Fritz 6. I have never said that I am able to beat top engines on something like i7 with good book...definitely no...

OK, now I understand better. Thanks.

[overlord]

[Event "Blitz:5'"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.10"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Komodo 3"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "79"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bf5 6. Bc4 e6 7. Bd2 c6 8.
Qe2 Bb4 9. a3 Nbd7 10. Ne5 Nxe5 11. dxe5 Nd5 12. Nxd5 Bxd2+ 13. Qxd2 Qxd2+ 14.
Kxd2 cxd5 15. Bd3 g6 16. Rac1 Ke7 17. h4 Rhc8 18. h5 Rc5 19. hxg6 hxg6 20. c3
Rd8 21. Bxf5 gxf5 22. Ke3 Rg8 23. g3 Rg4 24. Rh4 Rcc4 25. Rxg4 fxg4 26. Re1
Re4+ 27. Kd2 Rxe1 28. Kxe1 b5 29. Kd2 f6 30. exf6+ Kxf6 31. Ke3 e5 32. f4 Kf5
33. fxe5 Kxe5 34. Kd3 a5 35. Ke3 a4 36. Kd3 Ke6 37. Kd4 Kd6 38. Ke3 Ke5 39. Kd3
Ke6 40. Ke3 1/2-1/2

[Event "15 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.04.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Cheng 1.07"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D66"]
[WhiteElo "2028"]
[PlyCount "55"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bg5 O-O 6. e3 Nbd7 7. Rc1 c6 8. Bd3
h6 9. Bh4 dxc4 10. Bxc4 b5 11. Bd3 b4 12. Ne4 Nxe4 13. Bxe7 Nxf2 14. Bxd8 Nxd1
15. Kxd1 Rxd8 16. Rxc6 Bb7 17. Rc7 Bd5 18. b3 Bxf3+ 19. gxf3 Nf6 20. Bc4 a5 21.
Ke2 Rd6 22. Rc1 Ne8 23. Rc5 Nf6 24. Rc2 Nd7 25. Rc7 Nf6 26. Rc5 Nd7 27. Rc7 Nf6
28. Rc5 1/2-1/2

[Event "30 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.04.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Komodo 3"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D03"]
[WhiteElo "2028"]
[PlyCount "201"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. Nbd2 c6 6. c3 Bf5 7. Qb3 Qd7 8.
e3 Na6 9. Be2 Be7 10. O-O O-O 11. Rfe1 Rab8 12. Nf1 Rfe8 13. Ng3 Bg6 14. Rad1
Bd6 15. Bd3 Bxd3 16. Rxd3 Nc7 17. Qc2 g6 18. Rd2 Kg7 19. Rde2 Rbd8 20. e4 a5
21. e5 fxe5 22. Nxe5 Bxe5 23. Rxe5 Rxe5 24. Rxe5 Re8 25. Qe2 f6 26. Re3 Rxe3
27. Qxe3 Qe6 28. Qxe6 Nxe6 29. Ne2 f5 30. f3 Kf6 31. Kf2 f4 32. Ke1 g5 33. Nc1
Kf5 34. a3 b6 35. Kf2 a4 36. Ne2 Kf6 37. Nc1 c5 38. Ne2 c4 39. g4 Kg6 40. h3 h5
41. Kg2 h4 42. Kf2 Kf6 43. Kg2 Nd8 44. Kf2 Kg6 45. Kg2 Nc6 46. Kf2 Kf6 47. Kg2
Ke6 48. Kf2 Kd6 49. Kg2 Ke7 50. Kf2 Ke6 51. Kg2 b5 52. Kf2 Ke7 53. Kg2 Kf7 54.
Kf2 Ke6 55. Kg2 Kf6 56. Kf2 Ne7 57. Kg2 Ke6 58. Kf2 Kd6 59. Kg2 Nc6 60. Kf2 Na5
61. Nc1 Ke6 62. Ke2 Nc6 63. Kf2 Nb8 64. Ke2 Kf6 65. Kf2 Kg7 66. Ne2 Kg6 67. Nc1
Nc6 68. Ne2 Kf6 69. Nc1 Ke7 70. Ne2 Na5 71. Nc1 Kd6 72. Ke2 Kd7 73. Kf2 Nc6 74.
Ke2 Ke7 75. Kf2 Nb8 76. Ke2 Kd6 77. Kf2 Kc7 78. Ne2 Kc6 79. Nc1 Kb6 80. Ne2 Kc7
81. Nc1 Nc6 82. Ne2 Kd7 83. Kg2 Nd8 84. Kf2 Ne6 85. Kg2 Kd6 86. Kf2 Nd8 87. Kg2
Ke6 88. Kf2 Kd7 89. Kg2 Ne6 90. Kf2 Ke8 91. Kg2 Kf7 92. Kf2 Kf6 93. Kg2 Nc7 94.
Kf2 Na6 95. Kg2 Ke7 96. Kf2 Nb8 97. Kg2 Kd7 98. Kf2 Kd8 99. Kg2 Nc6 100. Kf2
Kd7 101. Kg2 1/2-1/2

[overlord]

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Date "2012.06.11"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Komodo 3"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]


{256MB, Mirekbook.ctg} 1. e4 d6 2. d4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. Be3 Nf6 5. f3 c6 6. Qd2
O-O 7. Nge2 b5 8. a3 Nbd7 9. g4 Nb6 10. Ng3 a5 11. Bh6 Bxh6 12. Qxh6 b4 13.
axb4 axb4 14. Rxa8 Nxa8 15. Nd1 Qb6 16. c3 bxc3 17. bxc3 e5 18. Ne3 Qa5 19.
Nef5 Qxc3+ 20. Kf2 Bxf5 21. Nxf5 gxf5 22. Qg5+ Kh8 23. Qxf6+ Kg8 24. Qg5+ Kh8
25. Qf6+ Kg8 26. Qg5+ Kh8 27. Qf6+ 1/2-1/2

[overlord]

My first draw in Sicilian defence ever...

[Event "10 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.11"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Komodo 3"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]


{256MB, Mirekbook.ctg} 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6.
Be2 Bg7 7. Be3 O-O 8. f3 Nc6 9. Qd2 d5 10. exd5 Nxd5 11. Nxd5 Nxd4 12. Bxd4
Qxd5 13. Bxg7 Qxd2+ 14. Kxd2 Kxg7 15. Rhd1 Bd7 16. c3 Bc6 17. Ke3 Rfc8 18. Rd2
e5 19. Rad1 Ba4 20. Rc1 Rd8 21. Bd1 Rxd2 22. Kxd2 Rd8+ 23. Ke1 Bc6 24. Bc2 f5
25. Rd1 Rxd1+ 26. Bxd1 Kf6 27. Kf2 Ke6 28. Bb3+ Bd5 29. Bxd5+ Kxd5 30. Ke3 a5
31. b3 b5 32. Kd3 h6 33. Ke3 Kd6 34. Kd3 Kc5 35. Ke3 Kd5 36. Kd3 a4 37. Ke3 Kd6
38. Kd3 Kc5 39. Ke3 Kc6 40. Kd3 Kd6 41. Ke3 Kd5 42. Kd3 h5 43. h3 h4 44. Ke3
Kc5 45. Kd3 Kd6 46. Ke3 Kd5 47. Kd3 g5 48. Ke3 a3 49. Kd3 Kc6 50. Ke3 Kd6 51.
Kd3 Kd5 52. Ke3 Kc5 53. Kd3 Kc6 54. Ke3 Kb6 55. Kd3 Kc7 56. Ke3 Kc6 57. Kd3 Kd5
58. Ke3 e4 59. fxe4+ fxe4 60. Ke2 Ke5 61. Ke3 Kf5 62. c4 bxc4 63. bxc4 Ke5 64.
c5 Kd5 65. c6 Kxc6 66. Kxe4 Kc5 67. Kd3 Kd5 68. Kd2 Ke6 69. Ke2 Ke5 70. Ke3 Kf5
71. Kf3 g4+ 72. hxg4+ Kg5 73. Ke3 Kxg4 74. Kf2 Kf4 75. Ke2 Ke4 76. Kd2 Kd4 77.
Ke2 Kc3 78. Kd1 Kd3 79. Ke1 Kc4 80. Ke2 Kd4 81. Kd2 Kd5 82. Kd3 Ke5 83. Ke3 Kf5
84. Kf3 Kg5 85. g4 h3 86. Kg3 h2 87. Kxh2 Kxg4 88. Kg2 Kf4 89. Kf2 Ke4 90. Ke2
Kd4 91. Kd2 Ke4 92. Ke2 Ke5 93. Ke3 Kd5 94. Kd3 Ke5 95. Kc3 Ke4 96. Kb3 Kd3 97.
Kxa3 Kc4 98. Kb2 Kd5 99. a4 Kd4 100. a5 Kd5 101. a6 Kc6 102. a7 Kb7 103. a8=R
1/2-1/2

[overlord]

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Date "2012.06.12"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Cheng 1.07 ja"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6.
h4 h6 7. Nf3 Nd7 8. h5 Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Ngf6 12. O-O-O Bd6
13. Ne4 Nxe4 14. Qxe4 Nf6 15. Qe2 Qb6 16. Rhe1 O-O 17. g4 a5 18. g5 hxg5 19.
Bxg5 Nxh5 20. Ne5 Bxe5 21. dxe5 g6 22. Rh1 Qa6 23. Qf3 a4 24. Rxh5 a3 25. b3 f6
26. Bxf6 Qd3 27. Rxd3 gxh5 28. Qg3+ Kf7 29. Qg7+ Ke8 30. Qe7# 1-0

[Kyodai]

Thanks for showing us your games Miroslav!

First of all - I think the ratio wins/losses/draws in your games are totally uninteresting. The central issue is that you show the weaknesses of the programs. It's possible that some games are what we call "trial and error" i.e. losses improved by new games - but for me that is also irrelevant.

During the years amateur players have showed games in this forum. I have actually posted some myself, several years ago. My interest in playing these computers has re-awoken - but I find it dull when repeating games just for the sake of getting some points. Nevertheless I like people who try to play themselves vs the engines - f.e. I remember fernando and kurt utzinger among others, trying out the engines here.

My impression is that the less you know about chess - the weaker player you are - the more you tend to think it's almost impossible for amateur chess players to score points vs top engines. This is nonsense of course. Just look at Miros games and you find the weaknesses. Finding them is a value in itself and might contribute to better engines.

Personally I play with a huge book - self made Powerbook and several GBs in gross - finding pleasure afterwards noticing that the variation actually was played by rubinstein 1922....

[overlord]

Thanks for your comment. As you said even amateur player still has some chance to achieve good results against engines although it is more and more difficult. I believe that there is effective way how can almost everybody make some win or draw against engines. I would conclude it in following points:
1. Play a lot of games against engine. After let´s say 50-100 games it is clear where human can resist for a longer time and where loses very soon and very badly.
2. In step two eliminate the openings and lines wgich are two shapr and too difficult or unbalanced.
3. Start playing lines where at least 6 pawns (better is 7) stays on the board. The best is if the structure of pawns is symmetrical and without significant weaknesses. Generally said human chances of getting draw are increasing if material is reduced - exchanges should be also symmetrical (nothing like rook + two pawns for bishop and knight or so on).
4. Let´s say that we found openings and lines which are proper for human player (Caro-kann, French defence, Russian game, some lines in Kings indian defence or exchanged queens gambit). For example I will achieve solid position but after 40 moves engine gets edge and after another mistake beats me... I will analyse the and can see what was wrong and slightly analyse plans that could be played and why...next time I will do better...OK if the book has many moves (I am not speaking about deep book up to move 25-35, in this case you are not playing against engine but against book,). you can see similar motives and structures. If you will get same position you will play faster and definitely better at least for next few moves. Even if the position is not the same but similar you still made some progress because you improved your understanding of position...for example: I didn´t see some tactical hit...well next time I will care about that in the same or similar positions.
5. Another important factor is king safety - if you are playing against computer you have to care about your king as much as possible...it is big difference compared to playing against other people.
6. Human biggest advantage is that learn from our mistakes and improve not only our general chess skills but especially skills in some very specific positions or patterns.
7.If you would liket win there is the best chance to create positions with blocked center where human has space and attacking possibilities against king and computer has to start active counterplay on the queen´s side.

[overlord]

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C42"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]

{256MB, Mirekbook.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nf3 {1} Nf6 {0} 3. Nxe5 {1} d6 {0}
4. Nf3 {1} Nxe4 {0} 5. Nc3 {1} Nxc3 {0} 6. dxc3 {0} Be7 {0} 7. Be3 {1} Nc6 {0}
8. Qd2 {1} O-O {0} 9. O-O-O {1} Ne5 {0} 10. Nxe5 {1} dxe5 {5} 11. Qxd8 {5} Rxd8
{0} 12. Bc4 {5} Bf5 {5} 13. Rxd8+ {21} Rxd8 {0} 14. Rd1 {2} Rxd1+ {11} 15. Kxd1
{0} b6 {12} 16. Bd5 {23} g5 {15} 17. c4 {34} Kg7 {5} 18. b3 {11} g4 {7} 19. g3
{6} Kf6 {4} 20. Kd2 {6} Ba3 {0} 21. Bc6 {12} a5 {4} 22. Bd5 {7} Bb4+ {8} 23.
Kd1 {5} Ke7 {4} 24. Bc6 {27} f6 {8} 25. Bd5 {1} Kd6 {3} 26. Bg2 {13} Bc5 {4}
27. c3 {18} Bxe3 {6} 28. fxe3 {0} e4 {5} 29. b4 {17} c5 {5} 30. a3 {5} Ke5 {0}
31. Kd2 {16} Bd7 {6} 32. Bf1 {2} f5 {7} 33. Be2 {3} Ba4 {7} 34. Bd1 {10} Bxd1 {
0} 35. Kxd1 {1} a4 {9} 36. Kd2 {1} Kf6 {7} 37. Ke2 {1} Ke6 {7} 38. Kd2 {1} Kf7
{7} 39. Ke2 {1} Kf6 {7} 40. Kd2 {1} h5 {4} 41. Ke2 {1} Kg5 {4} 42. Kf2 {1} h4 {
8} 43. Ke2 {2} h3 {6} 44. Kf2 {1} Kf6 {3} 45. Ke2 {1} Ke6 {1} 46. Kf2 {2} Kd7 {
2} 47. Ke2 {1} Kc6 {6} 48. b5+ {7} Kd7 {2} 49. Kf2 {3} Kd6 {3} 50. Ke2 {1} Ke7
{5} 51. Kf2 {1} Kf8 {6} 52. Ke2 {0} Kf7 {5} 53. Kf2 {0} Kg6 {1} 54. Ke2 {0} Kh6
{1} 55. Kf2 {0} Kg6 {3} 56. Ke2 {0} Kh6 {1} 57. Kf2 {0} Kg6 {1} 1/2-1/2

[Event "5 min. blitz (+3s/move for man)"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Fritz 6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C42"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]

{256MB, Mirekbook.ctg} 1. e4 {0} e5 {0} 2. Nf3 {2} Nf6 {0} 3. Nxe5 {1} d6 {0}
4. Nf3 {1} Nxe4 {0} 5. Nc3 {1} Nxc3 {0} 6. dxc3 {1} Be7 {0} 7. Be3 {1} O-O {0}
8. Qd2 {1} Nc6 {0} 9. O-O-O {1} Be6 {13} 10. Kb1 {2} Ne5 {7} 11. Nxe5 {3} dxe5
{2} 12. Qxd8 {2} Rfxd8 {3} 13. Be2 {2} f5 {10} 14. g3 {9} g5 {12} 15. f4 {9}
gxf4 {10} 16. gxf4 {1} Rxd1+ {4} 17. Rxd1 {2} e4 {8} 18. b3 {9} Kf7 {6} 19. Rg1
{8} Bd6 {6} 20. c4 {11} b6 {7} 21. a4 {4} c5 {5} 22. Kc1 {4} Kf6 {13} 23. Rg3 {
6} Rd8 {0} 24. Rg5 {7} h6 {6} 25. Rg3 {2} Bf7 {9} 26. Rg2 {9} Ke6 {6} 27. Rg7 {
5} Bf8 {5} 28. Rg3 {2} Be7 {5} 29. Rg7 {4} Rh8 {6} 30. Kd2 {13} Bf6 {4} 31. Rg3
{2} h5 {5} 32. Kc1 {6} h4 {10} 33. Rg1 {4} Rd8 {3} 34. Rg2 {3} Bd4 {4} 35. Kd2
{3} Bg7+ {0} 36. Kc1 {1} Bc3 {3} 37. Rg1 {7} Rd7 {4} 38. Rg2 {4} Rd6 {4} 39.
Rg1 {1} a6 {3} 40. Rg2 {1} Rd8 {3} 41. Rg1 {1} Rd7 {3} 42. Rg2 {1} Kf6 {4} 43.
Rg1 {1} Rd8 {2} 44. Rg2 {1} Rd6 {4} 45. Rg1 {1} Bd4 {3} 46. Kd2 {2} Bb2+ {0}
47. Ke1 {2} Bc3+ {0} 48. Kf2 {2} Ke6 {1} 49. Rg2 {9} Rd8 {2} 50. Rg1 {1} Rg8 {3
} 51. Rxg8 {2} Bxg8 {0} 52. h3 {7} Ke7 {2} 53. Kg2 {10} a5 {4} 54. Kf2 {1} Bd4
{2} 55. Bh5 {5} Bf7 {0} 56. Be2 {3} Ke6 {3} 57. Bd1 {4} Bg6 {0} 58. Be2 {2} Kd6
{0} 59. Bd1 {1} Bf6 {0} 60. Be2 {2} Bc3 {2} 61. Bd1 {2} Be8 {2} 62. Be2 {1} Bd4
{2} 63. Bd1 {1} Kc6 {1} 64. Be2 {1} Bf7 {1} 65. Bd1 {1} Kd6 {0} 66. Be2 {1} Kd7
{1} 67. Bd1 {1} Be8 {1} 68. Be2 {1} Ke6 {1} 69. Bd1 {1} Kf6 {2} 70. Be2 {0} Kg7
{1} 71. Bd1 {1} Kg6 {2} 72. Be2 {0} Kh7 {2} 73. Bd1 {1} Kh6 {1} 74. Be2 {1}
Bxe3+ {0} 75. Kxe3 {1} Bh5 {0} 76. Kd2 {17} Bxe2 {1} 77. Kxe2 {1} Kg6 {0} 78.
Kd2 {4} Kf6 {2} 79. Ke2 {1} Ke7 {2} 80. Kd2 {0} Kd7 {1} 81. Ke2 {1} Ke8 {1} 82.
Kd2 {0} Ke7 {1} 83. Ke2 {0} Kf7 {1} 84. Kd2 {1} Kg8 {1} 85. Ke2 {1} Kf8 {0} 86.
Kd2 {1} Ke8 {1} 87. Ke2 {1} Kd7 {2} 88. Kd2 {0} Kc8 {1} 89. Ke2 {1} Kc7 {1} 90.
Kd2 {0} Kb8 {1} 91. Ke2 {0} Kc7 {1} 92. Kd2 {0} Kb7 {1} 93. Ke2 {0} Kc6 {1} 94.
Kd2 {0} Kc7 {1} 95. Ke2 {0} Kb7 {1} 96. Kd2 {0} Kc6 {1} 97. Ke2 {0} Kd6 {0} 98.
Kd2 {0} Ke6 {1} 99. Ke2 {0} Kf6 {1} 100. Kd2 {0} Kg6 {1} 101. Ke2 {0} Kh6 {0}
102. Kd2 {0} Kh7 {0} 103. Ke2 {0} Kg8 {1} 104. Kd2 {0} Kf7 {1} 105. Ke2 {0} Ke6
{1} 106. Kd2 {0} Kd6 {1} 107. Ke2 {1} Ke6 {0} 108. Kd2 {1} Kd6 {0} 109. Ke2 {1}
Ke6 {0} 1/2-1/2