Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

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overlord
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:46 pm
Location: Trinec, Czech Republic

Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by overlord » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:30 am

Many people thinks that at the present time chess engines are too strong to make some good results against them. I would like to decline those myths. Even very average player (FIDE ELO 2000 and higher) may be able to get a lot draws and some wins againts the strongest engines. I am very average player but I can beat most of engines on my Samsung 9220 and even on my old quad (Q6600). I must note that the question is not how strong are you but how can you adapt your play style against engines. That is the reason that average player with a lot of experience with engines may get better results than GM. Before I post some games, I would like to define general rules which must be respected to achieve good results.
1. Opening choice - there is no chance to play any Sicilian defence or openings like Moscow system, human is simply smashed by calculation power of engine. Very good opening choice anainst engine is Russian defence (especially system with Jc3 Jxc3), Caro-kann (system with g4 attack), many lines in French defence (strategy is much more important than tactics here), against some wekaker engines even Evans gambit can be used. But the weakest opening for engines is king´s indian defence (human can win with both colours - if computer has something like general book 8-9 moves).
2. To keep comfortable draw it is necessary to have symetrical structure of pawns on both sides and to keep at least 6 pawns on chessboard (each side).
3. Right now engines are absolutly superior to human in tactics late middle game (especially Houdini is really king of the hill) and endgame are also at very solid level (with table bases). On the other hand every engine is limited by it´s horizon. That is why opening lines with pawns sacrifice and clear attacking strategy are so unpleasant for engines.
4. Maybe it will sound little bit strange but thera are hihger chances for human playing 5 minute blitz than long games - it is also associated with horizon which I discussed earlier.

Before someone will accuse me that I was playing against engine level 1800, here are engines settings:

For Samsung 9220 (2 cores 1,4 GHz, full strength, ponder on,Droidfish GUI)
For Q6600 (3 cores for Houdini and all engines that support more than 1 core, 256 MB hash, ponder on, default ponder) - someone may tell that increasing contempt will reduce my chances rapidly but on the other hand original setting is the strongest and engine doesn´t know who is his opponent. When Houdini is playing on playchess it also doesn´t change it´s contept playing weaker engines or slower PC).

Well, let´s see some games:

[Event "5 min. blitz"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.06.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Houdini 1.5a x64"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C42"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[Annotator ",Microsoft"]
[PlyCount "254"]
[TimeControl "300"]

{319MB, Mirekbook.ctg, Vlastník-PC} 1. e4 {0} e5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {1} Nf6 {B/0 0}
3. Nxe5 {1} d6 {B/0 0} 4. Nf3 {1} Nxe4 {B/0 0} 5. Nc3 {1} Nxc3 {B/0 0} 6. dxc3
{1} Be7 {B/0 0} 7. Be3 {1} Nc6 {B/0 0} 8. Qd2 {1} O-O {B/0 0} 9. O-O-O {2} Ne5
{B/0 0} 10. Nxe5 {2} dxe5 {0.14/17 4} 11. Bc4 {(Qxd8) 4} Qxd2+ {0.09/18 10} 12.
Rxd2 {1} Bf5 {0.13/19 14} 13. Rhd1 {3} a6 {0.08/18 12} 14. f3 {(Bd3) 14} Rad8 {
0.03/19 9} 15. a3 {(Bd3) 12} Rxd2 {0.00/19 9} 16. Rxd2 {(Bxd2) 1} Re8 {
-0.01/19 6} 17. Bd5 {(Ba2) 1} Bc8 {-0.03/20 7} 18. c4 {(b4) 10} c6 {-0.09/19 5}
19. Be4 {1} f5 {-0.13/19 13} 20. Bd3 {2} c5 {-0.13/19 6} 21. f4 {(Kd1) 12} e4 {
-0.21/21 4} 22. Be2 {(Bf1) 1} Kf7 {-0.25/21 5} 23. g3 {(Bf1) 2} b6 {-0.24/21 10
} 24. h4 {(c3) 3} Ke6 {-0.31/18 4} 25. a4 {(h5) 7} a5 {-0.34/18 5} 26. c3 {6}
Rg8 {-0.32/19 2} 27. Kc2 {9} g6 {-0.32/22 0} 28. b3 {2} Bf6 {-0.32/19 2} 29.
Bd1 {(Rd1) 7} Bd7 {-0.34/20 5} 30. Be2 {(Rh2) 2} h6 {-0.38/21 11} 31. Bd1 {
(Rd5) 12} g5 {-0.39/21 5} 32. hxg5 {12} hxg5 {-0.39/24 0} 33. Rh2 {(Bh5) 2} g4
{-0.39/21 4} 34. Be2 {(Rh6) 5} Bg7 {-0.40/22 5} 35. Bf1 {(Bf2) 5} Be8 {
-0.40/23 3} 36. Be2 {1} Bg6 {-0.40/23 2} 37. Bf1 {(Rh1) 1} Rd8 {-0.40/23 3} 38.
Be2 {(Rh1) 4} Rb8 {-0.40/24 3} 39. Bf1 {1} Rg8 {-0.35/24 21} 40. Be2 {(Rh1) 2}
Rc8 {-0.40/24 3} 41. Bf1 {(Rh1) 1} Rc7 {-0.40/22 6} 42. Be2 {(Rd2) 1} Be8 {
-0.40/23 2} 43. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Rc8 {-0.40/23 4} 44. Be2 {(Bc1) 3} Rd8 {
-0.40/23 2} 45. Bf1 {(Rh7) 7} Kf6 {-0.40/23 2} 46. Be2 {(Rd2) 1} Bf7 {
-0.40/23 2} 47. Bf1 {1} Rb8 {-0.40/22 1} 48. Be2 {1} Ke6 {-0.40/23 1} 49. Bf1 {
(Rh1) 1} Be8 {-0.40/23 2} 50. Be2 {(Rh7) 1} Rc8 {-0.40/23 2} 51. Bf1 {1} Rd8 {
-0.40/23 1} 52. Be2 {(Rd2) 1} Bc6 {-0.40/22 2} 53. Bf1 {(Rh7) 1} Rc8 {
-0.40/22 2} 54. Be2 {(Kd2) 0} Rc7 {-0.40/22 2} 55. Bf1 {1} Rb7 {-0.40/23 1} 56.
Be2 {(Rd2) 1} Rd7 {-0.40/24 4} 57. Bf1 {0} Re7 {-0.40/24 3} 58. Be2 {(Rd2) 0}
Rf7 {-0.40/22 2} 59. Bf1 {(Bd1) 0} Rc7 {-0.40/23 2} 60. Be2 {(Re2) 1} Ra7 {
-0.37/19 2} 61. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Bd7 {-0.37/19 1} 62. Be2 {(Bc1) 1} Be8 {
-0.37/19 1} 63. Bf1 {(Rh1) 1} Rb7 {-0.32/19 8} 64. Be2 {(Bc1) 1} Bg6 {
-0.32/18 1} 65. Bf1 {(Rh1) 1} Bf6 {-0.30/19 1} 66. Be2 {(Re2) 1} Be8 {
-0.28/18 2} 67. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Rb8 {-0.28/18 3} 68. Be2 {(Rh7) 1} Kf7 {
-0.27/17 1} 69. Bf1 {(Rh7+) 1} Bc6 {-0.24/17 1} 70. Be2 {(Bg1) 1} Kg6 {
-0.24/16 1} 71. Bf1 {1} Rc8 {-0.21/16 1} 72. Be2 {(Re2) 1} Rd8 {-0.19/17 1} 73.
Bf1 {1} Bg7 {-0.19/18 0} 74. Be2 {(Rd2) 1} Kf7 {-0.17/16 1} 75. Bf1 {1} Ke6 {
-0.15/16 1} 76. Be2 {(Rh7) 1} Rh8 {-0.11/16 2} 77. Rxh8 {(Rg2) 1} Bxh8 {
-0.18/16 0} 78. Bf1 {(Bf2) 1} Bf6 {-0.17/22 1} 79. Be2 {(Kd2) 1} Bd7 {
-0.17/23 1} 80. Bf1 {(Bf2) 1} Bg7 {-0.17/24 1} 81. Bg2 {(Kd2) 3} Be8 {
-0.17/22 1} 82. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Bf7 {-0.17/24 1} 83. Bg2 {(Bf2) 1} Kd6 {
-0.17/23 1} 84. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Be6 {-0.17/24 1} 85. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Kc7 {
-0.17/23 1} 86. Bf1 {1} Bd7 {-0.17/24 0} 87. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Be8 {-0.17/23 1} 88.
Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Bf8 {-0.17/25 1} 89. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Kc6 {-0.17/24 1} 90. Bf1 {
(Kd2) 1} Bf7 {-0.17/25 1} 91. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bg8 {-0.17/24 1} 92. Bf1 {1} Bg7 {
-0.17/24 0} 93. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bh7 {-0.17/24 1} 94. Bf1 {(Kd2) 0} Bg6 {
-0.17/26 1} 95. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bh8 {-0.17/25 1} 96. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Be8 {
-0.17/26 1} 97. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bf6 {-0.17/24 1} 98. Bf1 {(Bf2) 1} Bf7 {
-0.17/25 1} 99. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Be6 {-0.17/24 1} 100. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Kd6 {
-0.17/24 1} 101. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bc8 {-0.17/23 1} 102. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Be7 {
-0.17/24 0} 103. Bg2 {(Kd2) 0} Bb7 {-0.17/23 1} 104. Bf1 {(Kd2) 0} Bf8 {
-0.17/24 1} 105. Bg2 {(Kd2) 0} Ke6 {-0.17/23 0} 106. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Bc6 {
-0.17/23 1} 107. Bg2 {(Kd2) 0} Be8 {-0.17/22 0} 108. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Kd6 {
-0.17/22 0} 109. Bg2 {(Kd2) 0} Be7 {-0.17/23 0} 110. Bf1 {0} Bf7 {-0.17/25 0}
111. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Bf6 {-0.17/23 0} 112. Bf1 {(Kd2) 1} Bg7 {-0.09/22 3} 113.
Bg2 {(Bc1) 1} Bh8 {-0.09/20 1} 114. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Kc6 {-0.09/22 1} 115. Bg2 {0}
Kc7 {-0.09/22 0} 116. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Bg8 {-0.09/20 1} 117. Bg2 {1} Kd6 {
-0.09/22 0} 118. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Kd7 {-0.04/20 2} 119. Bg2 {1} Kc7 {0.00/18 0}
120. Bf1 {(Bc1) 1} Bg7 {0.00/16 0} 121. Bg2 {1} Bf7 {0.00/19 0} 122. Bf1 {
(Bc1) 1} Bf8 {0.00/15 0} 123. Bg2 {(Kd2) 1} Kd6 {0.00/16 0} 124. Bf1 {(Kd1) 1}
Bg6 {0.00/19 0} 125. Bg2 {1} Bh5 {0.00/24 0} 126. Bf1 {1} Bg7 {0.00/28 0} 127.
Bg2 {(Bc1) 1} Bf8 {0.00/27 0} 1/2-1/2

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.05.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Critter 1.4 32-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D05"]
[WhiteElo "2028"]
[PlyCount "75"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. Bd3 Be7 5. O-O c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Nbd2 c4 8. Bb1
b5 9. a3 O-O 10. e4 Nd7 11. Re1 Re8 12. e5 Bb7 13. Nf1 Nf8 14. g4 a5 15. Ng3 a4
16. g5 Na5 17. Bc2 Nb3 18. Bxb3 axb3 19. Bd2 Qd7 20. Qe2 Qc8 21. Nh5 Ng6 22.
Nf6+ gxf6 23. gxf6 Bf8 24. Ng5 h6 25. Qh5 hxg5 26. Bxg5 Be7 27. Bh6 Bc5 28. Re3
Re7 29. Rg3 Rd7 30. Kh1 Rxa3 31. bxa3 Bf8 32. Rag1 Bg7 33. Bxg7 Qf8 34. Bxf8 b4
35. Rxg6+ fxg6 36. Rxg6+ Kxf8 37. Qh8+ Kf7 38. Rg7# 1-0

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.05.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Critter 1.4 32-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C51"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "75"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Bd6 6. O-O Nf6 7. Re1 O-O 8. d4
Rb8 9. Bg5 h6 10. Bh4 b5 11. Bb3 Qe7 12. Nbd2 Re8 13. Nf1 Qd8 14. Ng3 exd4 15.
cxd4 Bxg3 16. hxg3 g5 17. Nxg5 hxg5 18. Bxg5 d6 19. Qd3 Kg7 20. Rad1 Qe7 21. f4
Nb4 22. Qb1 Qf8 23. Bxf6+ Kxf6 24. e5+ Kg7 25. f5 c5 26. Qe4 d5 27. Qg4+ Kh7
28. Kf2 Qg7 29. Rh1+ Kg8 30. Qf4 cxd4 31. f6 Rb6 32. fxg7 Bd7 33. Qf6 Rxf6+ 34.
exf6 Bh3 35. Rxh3 Nd3+ 36. Rxd3 Re2+ 37. Kxe2 a6 38. Rh8# 1-0

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.05.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Cuckoo chess"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C51"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "59"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Bd6 6. O-O a6 7. d4 Nf6 8. Re1
O-O 9. Bg5 Qe7 10. Nbd2 b5 11. Bb3 Bb7 12. Nf1 h6 13. Bh4 g5 14. Nxg5 hxg5 15.
Bxg5 exd4 16. cxd4 Nxd4 17. Qxd4 Be5 18. Qe3 Bxa1 19. Qg3 Be5 20. Bf4+ Ng4 21.
Qxg4+ Bg7 22. e5 Qb4 23. Re3 Rfb8 24. Rg3 Qf8 25. Bh6 Be4 26. Bxg7 d5 27. Bxd5
Qc5 28. Bh6+ Bg6 29. Qxg6+ Kh8 30. Qg7# 1-0

[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.05.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Stockfish 2.2.2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C42"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "123"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nc3 Nxc3 6. dxc3 Be7 7. Be3 O-O
8. Qd2 c5 9. O-O-O Be6 10. Kb1 h6 11. Bxh6 gxh6 12. Qxh6 Bf5 13. Rd5 Bg6 14.
Bd3 Bxd3 15. Rh5 f6 16. cxd3 Kf7 17. Nh4 Ke8 18. Nf5 Nc6 19. Re1 Kd7 20. Qe3
Re8 21. Rh7 Kc7 22. Nxe7 Rxe7 23. Rxe7+ Nxe7 24. Qxe7+ Qxe7 25. Rxe7+ Kb6 26.
h4 Rf8 27. g4 Rh8 28. h5 f5 29. f3 fxg4 30. fxg4 Rg8 31. Re4 Kc6 32. c4 Kd7 33.
Kc2 Rh8 34. Kd2 Rg8 35. Ke3 Rh8 36. Kf4 a5 37. Kg5 d5 38. cxd5 Kd6 39. h6 b5
40. Kg6 Kxd5 41. Rf4 Ke5 42. Rf5+ Kd4 43. Kg7 Rd8 44. h7 a4 45. h8=Q Rxh8 46.
Kxh8 a3 47. bxa3 c4 48. dxc4 bxc4 49. Rf4+ Kd3 50. Rxc4 Kxc4 51. g5 Kd5 52. g6
Kc4 53. g7 Kb5 54. g8=Q Kb6 55. Qc4 Kb7 56. Kg7 Kb6 57. Kf7 Kb7 58. Ke7 Kb6 59.
Kd7 Ka5 60. Qb4+ Ka6 61. Kc7 Ka7 62. Qb7# 1-0

[Event "10 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Stockfish 2.2.2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C02"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "173"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. a3 c4 7. Be2 Na5 8. Nbd2 Bd7
9. O-O Ne7 10. Qc2 Nf5 11. Rb1 Be7 12. Re1 O-O 13. Nf1 Nb3 14. Bg5 Bxg5 15.
Nxg5 Qd8 16. f4 h6 17. Nf3 Ba4 18. Bd1 Nc5 19. Qd2 Bxd1 20. Rexd1 Ne4 21. Qe2
Rc8 22. N1d2 Nxd2 23. Rxd2 Qb6 24. g4 Ne7 25. Qf2 Qb3 26. Nh4 b5 27. f5 g5 28.
f6 Nc6 29. Qe3 Kh7 30. Nf3 Rg8 31. Kf2 Rg6 32. Rh1 a5 33. h4 b4 34. axb4 axb4
35. hxg5 bxc3 36. bxc3 Rh8 37. Rxh6+ Rxh6 38. gxh6 Qb1 39. Kg2 Qe4 40. Qxe4+
dxe4 41. Ng5+ Kg6 42. Nxe4 Rxh6 43. Nd6 Rh4 44. Kg3 Rh8 45. Nxc4 Rh1 46. Ne3
Rh8 47. Kf4 Nb8 48. c4 Na6 49. d5 Nc5 50. d6 Ra8 51. Nf1 Ra3 52. Ng3 Rc3 53.
Rd4 Nd7 54. Ne4 Rc1 55. c5 Kh6 56. Rd3 Kg6 57. Rc3 Rxc3 58. Nxc3 Nxc5 59. Na4
Nd7 60. Nb2 Kh7 61. Nd3 Kg8 62. Ke4 Kf8 63. Kd4 Kg8 64. g5 Kh7 65. Nf4 Kh8 66.
g6 Kg8 67. g7 Kh7 68. Nd3 Kg8 69. Nc5 Nb8 70. Na6 Nc6+ 71. Ke4 Kh7 72. d7 Nd8
73. Nc7 Nb7 74. Kd4 Na5 75. Kc5 Kg6 76. g8=Q+ Kf5 77. Qxf7 Ke4 78. Qxe6 Nb7+
79. Kc4 Nd8 80. Qd5+ Ke3 81. Qd4+ Ke2 82. Nd5 Nc6 83. Qe3+ Kf1 84. Nf4 Nxe5+
85. Kc3 Nd3 86. Qe2+ Kg1 87. Qg2# 1-0

[Event "30 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Critter 1.4 32-bit"]
[Black "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E97"]
[BlackElo "2028"]
[PlyCount "136"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. d4 O-O 5. e4 d6 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. h3 Nd7 10. Bg5 h6 11. Be3 f5 12. Rc1 f4 13. Bd2 g5 14. c5 Nf6 15. Qb3
Ng6 16. Bd3 Rf7 17. c6 b6 18. Nh2 h5 19. Rce1 g4 20. hxg4 hxg4 21. Nb5 Ne8 22.
g3 f3 23. Rd1 Bf6 24. Qc3 Qe7 25. Rc1 Rh7 26. Nxf3 gxf3 27. Bc2 Bg4 28. Bd1 Nh4
29. Na3 Qg7 30. Nc4 Bg5 31. Re1 Qh6 32. gxh4 Qxh4 33. Bxf3 Qh2+ 34. Kf1 Bh4 35.
Ke2 Qxf2+ 36. Kd3 Bxf3 37. Kc2 Rf7 38. Kb3 Nf6 39. Rf1 Nxe4 40. Rxf2 Nxc3 41.
Rg1+ Kf8 42. Rxf3 Rxf3 43. Bxc3 Re8 44. Nd2 Rg3 45. Rh1 Bg5 46. Ne4 Rg4 47.
Rh8+ Ke7 48. Rh7+ Kd8 49. Nf2 Rg2 50. Ne4 Be7 51. Kc4 a6 52. Bd2 Reg8 53. Kd3
R2g4 54. Rh2 Rh4 55. Re2 Rgg4 56. a4 Ke8 57. a5 b5 58. b3 Kf7 59. Re3 Kg6 60.
Re1 Rh3+ 61. Be3 Bg5 62. Nxg5 Rxg5 63. Rf1 Rgg3 64. Re1 Rxe3+ 65. Rxe3 Rxe3+
66. Kxe3 Kf5 67. Kd3 Kf4 68. Ke2 Ke4 0-1



[Event "5 min. game"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2012.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Stockfish 2.2.2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B19"]
[WhiteElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "76"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. Nf3 Nd7 8. h5
Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Ngf6 12. O-O-O Qc7 13. Kb1 Bd6 14. Ne4 Nxe4
15. Qxe4 O-O 16. g4 Nf6 17. Qe2 Nh7 18. g5 Nxg5 19. Nxg5 hxg5 20. Bxg5 Bf4 21.
Rdg1 Bxg5 22. Rxg5 Qf4 23. Rhg1 Qxd4 24. Rxg7+ Qxg7 25. Rxg7+ Kxg7 26. Qe5+ Kh6
27. Qf6+ Kxh5 28. f4 Kg4 29. Qg5+ Kf3 30. Qh5+ Kf2 31. Qh4+ Ke2 32. Qg4+ Ke3
33. Qg3+ Kd2 34. Qf2+ Kd1 35. Qf1+ Kd2 36. Qf2+ Kd1 37. Qf1+ Kd2 38. Qf2+ Kd1
1/2-1/2

and many more similar results...

User avatar
pocopito
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:31 am
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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by pocopito » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:13 am

Thanks for the post, both the ideas and the games are really interesting.

Related to the opening choice, do you have any opinion about 1.a3? I guess one of the points of this opening is to play as black with the (most of the times) usefull a6 already on the board (for example you avoid the Spanish). On the other hand, the human player can use all his/her strategical knowledge about openings wihle the engine will be sooner than later out of the book.

Regards

E Diaz
Two first meanings of the dutch word "leren":
1. leren [vc] (learn, larn, acquire) acquire or gain knowledge or skills.
2. leren [v] (teach, learn, instruct) impart skills or knowledge to.

overlord
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:46 pm
Location: Trinec, Czech Republic

Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by overlord » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:39 am

It is interesting idea to play something like a3...generally said many people witj very strong hardware if they wants to avoid good book simply play something like it.

styx
Posts: 338
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Location: Germany

Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by styx » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:04 pm

it's hard for me to believe, that you are able to defeat (or even draw) a 5 minutes game against a top engine - even with anti-engine-preparation. i'm really sorry about that. i want to believe it, but it's simply so unlikely. i would still be suspicious if you are a 2500+ elo player.

i've seen several postings of some games, where someone claimed to beat houdini. i'm still waiting for an official event where someone can replicate it without taking back a move.

i know that even the best engines sometimes can't find the right move in time, but even the ones they find are usually not the kind of moves, that lead to instant losses.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:15 pm

styx wrote:it's hard for me to believe, that you are able to defeat (or even draw) a 5 minutes game against a top engine - even with anti-engine-preparation. i'm really sorry about that. i want to believe it, but it's simply so unlikely. i would still be suspicious if you are a 2500+ elo player.

i've seen several postings of some games, where someone claimed to beat houdini. i'm still waiting for an official event where someone can replicate it without taking back a move.

i know that even the best engines sometimes can't find the right move in time, but even the ones they find are usually not the kind of moves, that lead to instant losses.
+1
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

zullil
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Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by zullil » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:54 pm

styx wrote:it's hard for me to believe, that you are able to defeat (or even draw) a 5 minutes game against a top engine - even with anti-engine-preparation. i'm really sorry about that. i want to believe it, but it's simply so unlikely. i would still be suspicious if you are a 2500+ elo player.

i've seen several postings of some games, where someone claimed to beat houdini. i'm still waiting for an official event where someone can replicate it without taking back a move.

i know that even the best engines sometimes can't find the right move in time, but even the ones they find are usually not the kind of moves, that lead to instant losses.
+2

overlord
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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by overlord » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Just copy the games and use engine which you want, you will see that it is clearly played by human... you will see that there will be simply no correlation between my and engines moves. Or just try it yourself it is not so difficult...it is not about strength but about playing style and opening choice...I have one big advantage because me and my colleague we have a lot of experience from free style chess and it is the best way how to find engines weakest points.

zullil
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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by zullil » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:36 pm

overlord wrote:Just copy the games and use engine which you want, you will see that it is clearly played by human... you will see that there will be simply no correlation between my and engines moves. Or just try it yourself it is not so difficult...it is not about strength but about playing style and opening choice...I have one big advantage because me and my colleague we have a lot of experience from free style chess and it is the best way how to find engines weakest points.
Even if you made each of your moves without computer assistance, there is the question of whether the engine's moves were actually made by the engine, and without the use of settings or modifications that might have weakened the engine.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:45 pm

overlord wrote:Just copy the games and use engine which you want, you will see that it is clearly played by human... you will see that there will be simply no correlation between my and engines moves. Or just try it yourself it is not so difficult...it is not about strength but about playing style and opening choice...I have one big advantage because me and my colleague we have a lot of experience from free style chess and it is the best way how to find engines weakest points.
I play the chess engines myself since 10 years and nowadays I beat with ease +2400 Elo chess engines every now and then and make a lot of draws....

I agree about using particular opening schemes to stear your play toward well known paths and certain patterns,but still....

To beat with ease +3000 Elo chess engines even running on a smart phone is not that easy at all,not to mention the blitz time controls you use ....
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_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Re: Man vs machine - how to beat chess engine

Post by Uri » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:47 pm

zullil wrote:Even if you made each of your moves without computer assistance, there is the question of whether the engine's moves were actually made by the engine, and without the use of settings or modifications that might have weakened the engine.
Yes I analyzed the games and the engines really made the same positional mistakes so I have good reason to believe that his victories over these engines were really honest.

What I think this again proves that humans really are superior and much smarter than chess engines in their strategical understanding of the game. And chess engines really do not understand chess strategy.

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